As a transperson, I long to be: [Archive]

transcendMental

Mar 4, 2008, 6:04 PM

(a) Free from the tyrrany of people telling me I shouldn't present as a woman in real life.
(b) Free from the tyrrany of people telling me I shouldn't present as a woman online.
(c) Free from people who think they have the right to tell me what gender I am.
(d) Free from people who think my genitals have anything to do with my gender.
(e) Free from the confusion of trying to identify with men I'm actually attracted to.
(f) Free from the confusion of trying to be attracted to women I actually identify with.
(g) Free from waking up in the morning disappointed every day.
(h) Free from going to bed each night, exhausted from playacting all day.

Together, the only consistent message from (a) and (b) is that mine isn't a real problem: I should just deal with it (while leaving me with few options for doing so).

Together, (c) and (d) ignore years of gender research (and people tell me I haven't thought this through).

Together, (e) and (f) force me to question every emotional attachment I make (and people wonder why I'm distant).

Together, (g) and (h) leave me precious few minutes during the day for happiness (and people wonder why I don't smile more).

--------------------

Sorry -- self-pity isn't generally my cup of tea. But these ideas have been playing in my mind lately, and I thought I would toss them out and see if there were any new perspectives to be gleaned.

Thanks to all, and to the general supportiveness of this site.
tm

MarieDelta

Mar 4, 2008, 8:30 PM

My comments in red

(a) Free from the tyrrany of people telling me I shouldn't present as a woman in real life.Yes, but who are those people?
(b) Free from the tyrrany of people telling me I shouldn't present as a woman online.Again yes, no reason to present as anything other than you.
(c) Free from people who think they have the right to tell me what gender I am.Agreed!
(d) Free from people who think my genitals have anything to do with my gender.Agreed
(e) Free from the confusion of trying to identify with men I'm actually attracted to.Hmm Not had this problem as far as I can tell
(f) Free from the confusion of trying to be attracted to women I actually identify with.Nor this one
(g) Free from waking up in the morning disappointed every day.Oh how I wish, yes absolutely
(h) Free from going to bed each night, exhausted from playacting all day.tears in my eyes , yes

You and I both know that g& h are part and parcell of the dysphoria.

a & b are the problem of Mrs Grundy, in other words, your neighbors and peers. However if youdecieve others then they find out and are angry, well they have aright to their anger, why? Deception. Yes you are a woman, a woman with a transgendered past/present and that is the way it is, at least until you have the surgery. ANnd even then you have a history that is diferent than most women, not better or lesser, just diferent. Like the way a woman of color might have a differnet histry from a caucasian woman.

c & d are the problem of bigots and ignorant people. We all wish to be free of those people. Its not a transgender problem , its a human problem.

bisexualinsocal

Mar 4, 2008, 8:36 PM

Close to you! On the day that you were born the angels got together!

And decided to create a dream come true!

DiamondDog

Mar 4, 2008, 8:48 PM

Close to you! On the day that you were born the angels got together!

And decided to create a dream come true!

"At least she (Karen Carpenter) wasn't fat."-An inside joke that someone who is very, Close to me! says.

bisexualinsocal

Mar 4, 2008, 8:49 PM

"At least she (Karen Carpenter) wasn't fat."

But she was phat!

transcendMental

Mar 4, 2008, 9:04 PM

a & b are the problem of Mrs Grundy, in other words, your neighbors and peers. However if youdecieve others then they find out and are angry, well they have aright to their anger, why? Deception. Yes you are a woman, a woman with a transgendered past/present and that is the way it is, at least until you have the surgery. ANnd even then you have a history that is diferent than most women, not better or lesser, just diferent. Like the way a woman of color might have a differnet histry from a caucasian woman.

c & d are the problem of bigots and ignorant people. We all wish to be free of those people. Its not a transgender problem , its a human problem.[/COLOR]

Marie, your example of a woman of color is interesting. If a woman who has black and white genes looks white, and does not mention her blackness to others (i.e., presents simply as a woman), despite her history, is it justifiable for others to be angry about her "deception" if they discover her past?

DiamondDog

Mar 4, 2008, 9:06 PM

But she was phat!

BisexinSoCal-So this thread doesn't get hijaked reply here:
http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?p=96435#post96435

Original poster: Learn to ignore other people, and just concentrate on loving yourself and your own self esteem.

If people refuse to listen to what you say or keep an open mind, there's no point in trying to re-educate them or keep telling them your opinion since you're not going to change their closed mind.

transcendMental

Mar 4, 2008, 9:11 PM

Learn to ignore other people, and just concentrate on loving yourself and your own self esteem.

If people refuse to listen to what you say or keep an open mind, there's no point in trying to re-educate them or keep telling them your opinion since you're not going to change their closed mind.

DD, I certainly agree with both parts of what you say here. Loving myself and working on self-esteem was a large part of why I posted this thread.

Thanks
tm

Azrael

Mar 4, 2008, 9:25 PM

I don't really know what I would call myself. Not a transperson per se, but genderqueer. I like to think I have my masculine and feminine energies fairly balanced. I could see myself one day becoming a full time crossdresser, but I don't think I'd ever actually change, because I like the way I am. It all depends on my mood and who I'm with. I'm naturally submissive, regardless of which gender role I settle into. I don't have a burning desire to be female, but I love being somewhere androgynous and inbetween. Bjork wrote a song that I just love. It's called 'Venus as a boy', off her first album. Highly recommended.
I'm fine with being a wacky little feral faerie boi, I figure why fuck with it?

I just wish all these 'straight acting' guys weren't so put off by it :tong:

TaylorMade

Mar 4, 2008, 9:31 PM

Marie, your example of a woman of color is interesting. If a woman who has black and white genes looks white, and does not mention her blackness to others (i.e., presents simply as a woman), despite her history, is it justifiable for others to be angry about her "deception" if they discover her past?

Some people do get angry. . . maybe not a killing rage, but people do get perturbed and upset...but it's more of a "How come?" than a "How dare!"

And I guess b/c that anger is a softer sort(especially now) some see a possibility for justification.

*Taylor*

MarieDelta

Mar 4, 2008, 9:34 PM

Marie, your example of a woman of color is interesting. If a woman who has black and white genes looks white, and does not mention her blackness to others (i.e., presents simply as a woman), despite her history, is it justifiable for others to be angry about her "deception" if they discover her past?

Justifiable anger, vs anger that isn't justifiable? Anger is anger, righteous or not.

If a POC is albino, or presents as caucasian, "passing", their own culture attacks them for this. Look at all the trouble Micheal Jackson has had over skin bleaching? & I agree that it is nobody's business (for the most part) what you are packing in your underwear, unless you are intimate with them, who cares?

Lorcan

Mar 5, 2008, 2:51 AM

(g) Free from waking up in the morning disappointed every day.[COLOR="red"]Oh how I wish, yes absolutely
(h) Free from going to bed each night, exhausted from playacting all day.tears in my eyes , yes

You and I both know that g& h are part and parcell of the dysphoria.

how do you "playact". The only way i could think of me "playacting" is when a female customer at work is telling me how much better woman are at such and such, and she thinks i'm a woman so she says it like "you an me against them"....and i think "this is work, just smile and nod". I mean, she might be right, but it's not "you and me against them".

MarieDelta

Mar 5, 2008, 6:09 AM

how do you "playact"..

I present as a male at work, and am not out as transgender at work, I think the same is true for transcend (please correct me if I'm wrong.) Sometimes that requires playacting, trying to pretend to be male when you feel female underneath.

I hope that clarifies what we are talking about...

diB4u

Mar 5, 2008, 3:13 PM

how do you "playact". The only way i could think of me "playacting" is when a female customer at work is telling me how much better woman are at such and such, and she thinks i'm a woman so she says it like "you an me against them"....and i think "this is work, just smile and nod". I mean, she might be right, but it's not "you and me against them".

Well playacting for me- is trying to be someone that I'm not. It is hard and it is taxing everyday when you have to be careful of what you say, how to answer a question.

To reply to transcendMental- I agree with everything you say, especially just because I've got boobs then I'm a woman!

That doesn't necessarily make me so.

Not at all.

Today at work I think I put my foot in it and told people indirectly that I've got gender issues.

But then they all think i'm weird- in a funny way lol.

Azrael I totally agree with you. For me, maybe for you, its hard to fullfil the desire to be masculine and femine at the same time, for me I strive daily to try and be more feminine. People have accepted me for who i am, its about time that I did lol.

Yes Azarel sometimes well i'd love to totally cross dress and live as a transman, but then I dont want to be a man... I dont want to be a woman either.

Lorcan

Mar 5, 2008, 10:40 PM

Doggie_Wood

Mar 6, 2008, 12:53 AM

:love1:
Marie, your example of a woman of color is interesting. If a woman who has black and white genes looks white, and does not mention her blackness to others (i.e., presents simply as a woman), despite her history, is it justifiable for others to be angry about her "deception" if they discover her past?

I think not! She presented herself as a woman, neither black nor white. If someone is to be mad or angry, let it be at themselves and not at her. It would be their own bigotted assumtion that led them to beleive that she was anything other than what she was, a woman!

:doggie:

by the way: I love transgendered people.:smirlove2

MarieDelta

Mar 6, 2008, 6:06 AM

and why do we have to playact? this is a serious question. Do you feel you'ld be fired?

You know, i'm not very good with words, but i'm thinking of keeping the words "I have a boys brain" on the tip of my tongue, in case the need arises. That is more understandable than "I'm trangendered" to most lay people.

There're never gonna fire me. They're too scared about a lawsuit.
In our great state of Colorado Gov. Bill Ritter signed into law, legislation prohibiting employment discrimination based on sexual orientation and transgender status.

It may be so here in Co, but it is not so in most of the rest of the USA, unfortunately.

Plus there are things that can be done to make your (work) life a living hell, without firing you .

I know that the Colorado law has been tested with regards to trans persons. It is only a mater of time before I come out at work.

But, like I said not every state, or nation has the same protections.

Lorcan

Mar 6, 2008, 9:55 AM

[QUOTE=MarieDelta;96573]Plus there are things that can be done to make your (work) life a living hell, without firing you .
[QUOTE]

Oh yeah... i KNOW THAT!

Actually at my work they can find a cause to lay me off and then not hire me back when work picks up. And they've tried hard to find cause, but i never gave them it. So they've turned there attitude around and are actually being nice to me.

I dont know the main reason they tried to lay me off... wheather it was because i'm bi and the owners are catholic, or my transgender ways rubbing up against rugged virel construction men, or the fact that they thought i was a liar and a "whore".

I do see it in some of their eyes... that look...like i don't fit the male paradigm that there are only 2 kinds of women: (1) available for fucking or (2) somebody else girlfriend; ignore her. They can't ignore me if i'm in charge of the job.:bigrin::bigrin:

Anyway, i would have left if i didn't like my job, but unforunately:rolleyes: I do.

diB4u

Mar 19, 2008, 10:14 AM

Hey well i thought I'd bump this thread up abit.

Randomly surfing, I came across a site for all you Transguys out there....

http://www.ftmguide.org/myths.html

All the sites i've come across have been to deal with M2F and this is the first F2M....

Of which I'm very happy to find...

So even for the curious reader or any genderqueens or even our M2F sisters out there read on....

I was astonished to find this-

Some may argue that FTM transsexuals taking testosterone should be compared to women with polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS), because women with PCOS show a correlation between insulin resistance and higher-than-average levels of testosterone (higher-than-average T levels for women, that is). However, because long-term testosterone administration in trans men generally results in very different overall hormone levels as compared to women with PCOS, and because the exact relationship between hormone levels and insulin resistance is not fully understood, it would most likely be optimal to study trans men directly rather than compare them to women with PCOS.

Ah but there hasnt been a study on women that are Tguys that were born with PCOs.

Thought i'd pass it on guys and gurls...

Dibsy.

Skater Boy

Mar 19, 2008, 10:19 AM

Ah but there hasnt been a study on women that are Tguys that were born with PCOs.

Prolly because men don't have ovaries.

But the eqivalent would probably be the testicles or glands that produce the testosterone.

[EDIT: Ah, I see what what you mean... a study that focuses specifically on biological women who identify as transgendered]

diB4u

Mar 19, 2008, 11:18 AM

Well yes in part, testostrone which is found natrually in men and in women, but for other suffers who has PCO their testostrone level is higher.

Because the study could only compare Transmen on hormones with the medically conditioned women with the PCO condition and the long term effects of Transmen and testostrone on the body as a whole.
It's confusing, but its worth while reading.

Another snippet.

Large deposits of visceral abdominal fat has also been linked to insulin resistance (as well as to low testosterone levels in non-trans men, and to increased testosterone levels in women with PCOS). Again, the exact relationship and causality between these factors is not fully understood. In general-- for people of all sexes-- large deposits of abdominal fat/obesity tends to be linked to insulin resistance, which can create a vicious cycle where more bodyfat is stored while an individual becomes increasingly resistant to insulin.

Some may argue that FTM transsexuals taking testosterone should be compared to women with polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS), because women with PCOS show a correlation between insulin resistance and higher-than-average levels of testosterone (higher-than-average T levels for women, that is). However, because long-term testosterone administration in trans men generally results in very different overall hormone levels as compared to women with PCOS, and because the exact relationship between hormone levels and insulin resistance is not fully understood, it would most likely be optimal to study trans men directly rather than compare them to women with PCOS.

Interesting stuff eh?

I would personally love to meet any transman that did have PCOs. Would the condition of having PCO's conteract with the intake of more testostrone? Will it stay the same, i mean the levels of free male hormones.

Skater Boy

Mar 19, 2008, 11:43 AM

So... you suspect that your gender dysphoria is caused by your medical condition. Interesting...

diB4u

Mar 19, 2008, 11:50 AM

Hmm, its just an interesting corolation between women with pco and transmen and the hormones in their system.

Like i said, I'm happy to find a site that deals with Transmen!

IT has answered a lot of question- for myself, and maybe it can answer questions for Transmen, or women that are wishing to transend.

MarieDelta

Mar 19, 2008, 11:52 AM

IIRC Helen Boyd - Author of "My Husband Betty" and "She's Not The Man I Married." has PCOS, and she is a little gender variant, but not dysphoric. From what I have read, no more variant than normal.

When you start on prescribed hormones, they do a baseline bloodtest and adjust from there. Not everyones system reacts the same to the same cocktail of drugs.

And then every so often they do more blood tests to make sure the dosages are correct.

Just a bit of side info for you

M

transcendMental

Mar 19, 2008, 1:35 PM

So... you suspect that your gender dysphoria is caused by your medical condition. Interesting...

The dominant theory about transsexualism that people finally seem to be coalescing around is that transsexualism IS a medical condition. Certainly it is no surprise that certain medical conditions would cause or contribute to gender dysphoria.

Skater Boy

Mar 19, 2008, 1:43 PM

The dominant theory about transsexualism that people finally seem to be coalescing around is that transsexualism IS a medical condition. Certainly it is no surprise that certain medical conditions would cause or contribute to gender dysphoria.

Fair enough. But I'd hazard a guess that NOT EVERY transgendered person has poly-cystic ovaries, or the male equivalent.

But hey... I-a know-a nuthin' :confused:

diB4u

Mar 19, 2008, 2:19 PM

Hmm, lol Skater I think your missing the point.

No, not all Tmen have PCO but as they progress with their hormone therapy, they can indeed deveolope PCO conditions.

I think at least. That is untill and IF they choose to have a hysterectomy.

Skater Boy

Mar 19, 2008, 2:25 PM

I dunno... medical conditions can cause/contribute to gender dysphoria, gender dysphoria IS a medical condition, gender dysphoria can cause/contribute to medical conditions...

Its all getting too much for my tiny brain to cope with. Sorry. I think I'll have another latte and worry about it tomorrow. Thats my usual strategy... :cool:

MarieDelta

Mar 20, 2008, 9:14 AM

Fair enough. But I'd hazard a guess that NOT EVERY transgendered person has poly-cystic ovaries, or the male equivalent.

But hey... I-a know-a nuthin' :confused:

If it were easy to seperate out the causes for GID, they'd have done it already, IMO.

GID, like many things may be a result of many factors - the mothers hormones, what environmental factors are encountered as an early child. The genetics of the child, the genetics of the parents. Its all very confusing.

There have been identical twins in which one is trans and the other is not, and there have been twins in which both are trans.

M

Skater Boy

Mar 20, 2008, 9:31 AM

diB4u

Mar 20, 2008, 3:53 PM

If it were easy to seperate out the causes for GID, they'd have done it already, IMO.

GID, like many things may be a result of many factors - the mothers hormones, what environmental factors are encountered as an early child. The genetics of the child, the genetics of the parents. Its all very confusing.

There have been identical twins in which one is trans and the other is not, and there have been twins in which both are trans.

M

Well yeah the persons early life might very well play a part in it all.

Sadly theres no one thing that determins who is transgender and who is not.

Although a common thread and a theme is hating of who you are, or more importantly thinking that your one gender and not the other.

All I can speak for is myself and my background. Thinking and feeling as a boy, being told the that im a girl and being disciplined for wanting to be a boy has left some pyschological damage.

I think though, that is common with all Transgendered indivduals regardless if the person is pre op, or a Transman or a Transwoman or seperatly but still worthy when u feel both and yet neither... For that reason I will include Androgyne people or individuals belonging to the 3rd gender.