PEOPLE LIVING ON THE NORTH SEA COAST OF ENGLAND, PLEASE READ THIS!

[childofwinter]

A tidal surge in the North Sea has sparked severe flood warnings and evacuations on England's east coast.

The prime minister held an emergency Cobra committee meeting on Thursday, as low pressure and strong winds caused the surge.

Norfolk and Suffolk have eight severe flood warnings. Parts of Kent, Essex, North Yorks and Lincs are on alert.

About 200 people in Norfolk have been moved and the Dartford Creek and Thames barriers were closed from 2000 GMT.

Norfolk Police, Norfolk County Council and Great Yarmouth Borough Council evacuated vulnerable people from the care homes and hospitals on the advice of the Environment Agency, which warned of "extreme danger to life and property".

Two rest centres have been set up in Norfolk, as more people could be brought in during the night.

Residents in low-lying areas of the Suffolk coast were advised to leave their homes as up to 1,300 properties could be affected there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7085394.stm

[discovery602]

29 april 2010 still here looks like we made it !

[12voltman59]

Good luck up there with the flooding--it seems that planet Earth might be the biggest terorist we have to worry about now---major earthquakes and volcanic eruptions, crazy winter weather in many places not used to it----now your flooding---here we are going to face a possible man-made environmental catastrophy of epic proportions along our Gulf Coast thanks to the destruction of that oil rig---it sure is already some kind of year!!

[TwylaTwobits]

Umm Voltie...they might be getting different sort of bad weather now since it's almost two years later... :tongue:

Not sure why people need to bump up old threads, it's confusing to us old folk :tong:

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Oh shit! I didnt see that until you mentioned it Twy. Good grief, almost made me grab the phone and call my daughter to see if they were ok over there. :eek: Grrrrrrr.
Cat

[Canticle]

I don't even remember this weather or news report from November 2007. What must have I been doing? Oh, Yeah, I know :bigrin: I do remember the heavy rain, earlier that year, when much of middle England and elsewhere in the country, was submerged.

I also remember that during that heavy rain, I lost three guinea pigs, within 36 hours :( and one of my rabbits got mixomatosis, due to the warm and damp weather causing tiny flies to breed and come in from the fields. Vets had said the weather, might lead to mixomatosis, being contracted by the domestic rabbit population. Blossom survived, but her health was never the same, never as good as it had been before.

[Hephaestion]

Surges in the North Sea occur time and again. What has been noted is that the the need to raise Thames Barrier has been far more frequent than was expected. The special worry in 2007 was a confluence of the same factors that were prominent in the east coast floods of 1953.

The possibility of coastal flooding in the UK continues to remain a problem.

[Canticle]

Surges in the North Sea occur time and again. What has been noted is that the the need to raise Thames Barrier has been far more frequent than was expected. The special worry in 2007 was a confluence of the same factors that were prominent in the east coast floods of 1953.

The possibility of coastal flooding in the UK continues to remain a problem.

And we must not forget all the coastal erosion, which happens along the eastern side of the country. Guess it has to happen somewhere....and then get deposited elsewhere.

[darkeyes]

And we must not forget all the coastal erosion, which happens along the eastern side of the country. Guess it has to happen somewhere....and then get deposited elsewhere.

Just a lil piece a useless info for yas all.. the island of Britain is as if on a pivot wich lies along wot is now the Scottish English border.. during the ice age, much of the country right down to not far north of London was under something like a mile of ice for millenia... this compressed much of the island very substantially... with the melting of the ice the land began to spring back.. the very far north of Scotland is rising very slowly but it will be millenia before this process ceases... the very south of England is sinking.. slowly certainly.. but with rising sea levels in time the south coast will disappear.. this process is exacerbated by erosion... so all u daft buggers that have left Scotland and the North of England for the greener pastures of the South in general and the south east in particular.. the greener pastures will in time become the bluer depths.. and as distant to the memory as the land bridge between Briain and the European continent..

..so dont u worry me lufflies a the south... look on the bright side.. everyone on mainland Britain will be Scottish 1 a these days... now isn that a luffly cheery thot for yas 2 take 2 ya kip wivya an hav wondrous dreams:bigrin:... that'll teach yas 2 take p*** outa bagpipes an haggis... :tong:

[12voltman59]

I didn't pay any attention to the date of the OP--but I did see a program from the BBC not long ago about all the potential flooding of parts England---the film said that some places in England the government is basically saying that are going to let the sea take the land and move the people instead of trying to stop the waters from coming since it is probably a futile effort anyway. There is controversy over that since the government wasn't paying all that much to the people they have already started to buy out.

The Dutch are also apparently looking at letting the sea take a great deal of their land back after all these years too---with long range plans calling for rebuilding cities on big huge floating structures complete with farms, apartment buildings, schools, airportsm factories and everything else you would find on land.

[TwylaTwobits]

OMG visions of "Waterworld" come to mind...........off to stab my eyes

[Canticle]

:bigrin:
Just a lil piece a useless info for yas all.. the island of Britain is as if on a pivot wich lies along wot is now the Scottish English border.. during the ice age, much of the country right down to not far north of London was under something like a mile of ice for millenia... this compressed much of the island very substantially... with the melting of the ice the land began to spring back.. the very far north of Scotland is rising very slowly but it will be millenia before this process ceases... the very south of England is sinking.. slowly certainly.. but with rising sea levels in time the south coast will disappear.. this process is exacerbated by erosion... so all u daft buggers that have left Scotland and the North of England for the greener pastures of the South in general and the south east in particular.. the greener pastures will in time become the bluer depths.. and as distant to the memory as the land bridge between Briain and the European continent..

..so dont u worry me lufflies a the south... look on the bright side.. everyone on mainland Britain will be Scottish 1 a these days... now isn that a luffly cheery thot for yas 2 take 2 ya kip wivya an hav wondrous dreams:bigrin:... that'll teach yas 2 take p*** outa bagpipes an haggis... :tong:


Ah, dear Fran........some of us returned to the north....even though officially it's the Midlands (middle earth). In fact my daughter did one better,,,,her Yorkshire genes, made her find herself a Yorkshire lad...so it goes full circle.....and ya know.....it doesn't surprise me Scotland is rising......it's inhabitants are full of hot air.....:bigrin::bigrin:......LOL.......Ducks and runs for cover........Hee Hee.......haggis are baby bagpipes...aren't they????? :bigrin:

[Hephaestion]

South east sinking? Not with all of the hot air around Fran.

Seriously, the West is rising also so there is a south east tip going on but the entirety of the British Isles is rising gently from the ice retreat. However, the likelyhood is that the rise in sea levels will overtake any such minor advantage down here.

Voltie - the halt in keeping sea defence maintained other than at major towns is called 'Managed Retreat'. The region that is most affected is that of the mid-east coast, more noticeable circa Lincolnshire and North Norfolk

The silly thing about this concept is that anybody who objects and tries to protect their property through personal endeavour finds themselves being prosecuted. Die you damned 'prol'. Die!

The Dutch have far more impressive organised coastal defences but there is a risk that even these will be overwhelmed at some time.

Twyla - Waterworld - I asked my significant other to choose a filmstar for us both to play with and she said Kevin Costner - oh well, I suppose that I could get used to gills and webbed feet - but the acting? Hmm. (Although not as awful as that of Nicholas Cage in "Knowing" whereupon forgetting about enlargement photocopying sweeps desks clear of material causing an unholy mess to then start copying the piece of paper that he has in his hand onto a wall mounted blackboard - AND without mistakes. I shall overlook the Lat Long coordinates being less than to 16 decimal places)).

Suspend belief? Ok, I'll keep trying.

[darkeyes]

South east sinking? Not with all of the hot air around Fran.



Hot air huh?? Bloody sauce!!!! :tong: So ya didn enjoy me lil joke then Heph? O well.. An shows wot u kno... hot air rises an as it not physically attached 2 the earth it dusn help it rise partic.. an me certainly not attached 2 it eitha..ne way..even if me wos me jus a tadge 2 lil 2 do owt on that score..;)

..an thats 2 peeps talk bout me an hot air in same breath.. God!! Think me had a big gob or summat..:eek:

[Hephaestion]

Hot air huh?? Bloody sauce!!!! :tong: So ya didn enjoy me lil joke then Heph? O well.. An shows wot u kno... hot air rises an as it not physically attached 2 the earth it dusn help it rise partic.. an me certainly not attached 2 it eitha..ne way..even if me wos me jus a tadge 2 lil 2 do owt on that score..;)

..an thats 2 peeps talk bout me an hot air in same breath.. God!! Think me had a big gob or summat..:eek:

Oh Fran! I was talking about our politicians in Bullshit Central (Houses of Parliament) and their present efforts at getting elected.

God I love you when you get stroppy - your place or mine? (and don't spare me with the tongue lashing).

[darkeyes]

Oh Fran! I was talking about our politicians in Bullshit Central (Houses of Parliament) and their present efforts at getting elected.

God I love you when you get stroppy - your place or mine? (and don't spare me with the tongue lashing).

... aaah soz Heph.. silly ole me.. they gettin on my nips an all Heph... an talkin a me bein stroppy..copped me Tory candidate in street otha day..'e didn appreciate bein called a lyin parasitical dog.. among otha things.. all blusta an 'e wudn ansa me questions.. an wen 'e did..as they say..ya knew 'e wos lyin cos a the lips flappin... but ther ya r..

[darkeyes]

..if hot air made land rise Heph.. alla that stuff down ur way at present wud lift se england by gud 3 or 400 feet... mind u..will soon sink back prob even farther 1ce peeps hav voted.. trust me on this... no matta the shape an cola (or colas) a the govt... gud chance we will all drown wereva we liv... mite jus make Greece seem a nice rich place 2 liv..

[Canticle]

... aaah soz Heph.. silly ole me.. they gettin on my nips an all Heph... an talkin a me bein stroppy..copped me Tory candidate in street otha day..'e didn appreciate bein called a lyin parasitical dog.. among otha things.. all blusta an 'e wudn ansa me questions.. an wen 'e did..as they say..ya knew 'e wos lyin cos a the lips flappin... but ther ya r..


Oooohhhhhhh, you never did? :eek: Yep....Fran did!....LOL...LOL.....:bigrin::bigrin: He He, I would have loved to have been there, to see his face!

Awwww...you ought to have my MP, cuddly Patrick.....whom I shall be voting for....never mind he wears blue. He is such a darn good MP. He actually does what he says he will do. He really does. Raise a subject with him...and he won't stop asking questions and trying to get things done. Pure gold, is our Patrick. Just a pity he's not old school Labour. You won't get me voting for the New variety.

[darkeyes]

Oooohhhhhhh, you never did? :eek: Yep....Fran did!....LOL...LOL.....:bigrin::bigrin: He He, I would have loved to have been there, to see his face!

Awwww...you ought to have my MP, cuddly Patrick.....whom I shall be voting for....never mind he wears blue. He is such a darn good MP. He actually does what he says he will do. He really does. Raise a subject with him...and he won't stop asking questions and trying to get things done. Pure gold, is our Patrick. Just a pity he's not old school Labour. You won't get me voting for the New variety.

Don get me started bout New Labour... howeva.. no matta how good me MP wos, if 'e wos a Tory.. the Fran vote goes elsewer...... am in a rite pickle this time round tho can tellya that.. think me mite jus rite F*** Off on me ballot papa.. so far thats fave..

Well this time next week we will kno.. an rite depressed it makin me an all.. still me m8 Jo sez 2 look on brite side... ther will b at least 3 times as many demos 2 go on ova next few years... cold comfort.. but since me luffs goin on demos.. comfort nuntheless...;):bigrin:

[darkeyes]

...forgot 2 say.. Kate wos very nice 2 'im.. she tapped 'im on the shoulder an sed "Now look what you've done.. you have set her off on a rant.. I have to live with that.. she will be hyper for hours now... well I'm sorry but you have just lost my vote."

God how me luffs that tart!!!:bigrin:

Talkin a adorable aforesed tart.. we wer at Easter Road this afty... an by enda match wiv all 'er bawlin an makin rite specatcle of 'ersel my God didn she hav the mos yummie husky voice... for sum 1 who isn a jambo she didn haff giv it laldy this afty wiv the voice... o yea.. we gubbed the buggas 2-1.. wot a triff day its been...:bigrin:

[darkeyes]

Spotted me MP doin the rounds in 'is bid 2 keep 'is job... tried 2 avoid 'im but alas nope.. failed miserably... Alistair, darlin' man (lil hint) that 'e is hailed me like ole friend.. an 'e got a mouthful for the mess 'im an 'is cronies made a the party in wich me wos raised an luffed for so long an forced me outa... not only Tories catch the sharp end a Fran's tongue... not by a long chalk..

... hav the Nat literature.. havn seen or met 'er but she looks quite cute:bigrin:.. pity the politics stink..:tong:

Next stop.. Cleggie's stoogely dope;)...

[Canticle]

Spotted me MP doin the rounds in 'is bid 2 keep 'is job... tried 2 avoid 'im but alas nope.. failed miserably... Alistair, darlin' man (lil hint) that 'e is hailed me like ole friend.. an 'e got a mouthful for the mess 'im an 'is cronies made a the party in wich me wos raised an luffed for so long an forced me outa... not only Tories catch the sharp end a Fran's tongue... not by a long chalk..

... hav the Nat literature.. havn seen or met 'er but she looks quite cute:bigrin:.. pity the politics stink..:tong:

Next stop.. Cleggie's stoogely dope;)...


Getting hyper, appears to send franspeak into overdrive, I see.....:bigrin:

Keep it up.....it makes me smile, when not much does, these days.

Cricket....always Cricket....Yorkshire County Cricket Club snd the Barnsley Boy, himself to be crowned King Geoff Boycott, of Yorkshire. That's a thought...home rule for Yorkshire.....when is the greatest country in the land, going to get it's own Parliament.

''March, march, many have won....''

Don't you dare write that word on your ballot form......think of all the women....especially Sylvia Pankhurst, who fought for the right to vote.

[darkeyes]

Don't you dare write that word on your ballot form......think of all the women....especially Sylvia Pankhurst, who fought for the right to vote.

Its cosa peeps like Sylvia Pankhurst that me can rite the eff word on me ballot papa.. wen the suffragettes started up women wern even sposed 2 kno owt bout politics far less talk bout 'em.. wen women got the vote.. they got the rite like every man 2 express ther displeasure at the candidates by spoilin ther ballot papas every bit as much as markin a X 'gainst the name a the candidate a ther choice.. an believe me.. Fran is mightily displeased wiv 'er choice in numpty candidates...

.. somehow methinks Sylvia wud b ratha pleased...:) Keir Hardie wud....

[Canticle]

Its cosa peeps like Sylvia Pankhurst that me can rite the eff word on me ballot papa.. wen the suffragettes started up women wern even sposed 2 kno owt bout politics far less talk bout 'em.. wen women got the vote.. they got the rite like every man 2 express ther displeasure at the candidates by spoilin ther ballot papas every bit as much as markin a X 'gainst the name a the candidate a ther choice.. an believe me.. Fran is mightily displeased wiv 'er choice in numpty candidates...

.. somehow methinks Sylvia wud b ratha pleased...:) Keir Hardie wud....


Nope...they would say we should not waste out vote. Vote.....vote for the person...if not the Party. Don't vote and you don't have the right to complain. I'm always telling folk that.

My daughter was meant to be called Keir.....if she'd been a boy...only I could remember if it was ie or ei and I couldn't remember how to spell Ruari.

Vote, Vote, Vote........no arguments there, please......I have spoken!! :bigrin:

[darkeyes]

Nope...they would say we should not waste out vote. Vote.....vote for the person...if not the Party. Don't vote and you don't have the right to complain. I'm always telling folk that.

My daughter was meant to be called Keir.....if she'd been a boy...only I could remember if it was ie or ei and I couldn't remember how to spell Ruari.

Vote, Vote, Vote........no arguments there, please......I have spoken!! :bigrin:

Jus havta differ won we? Will be votin.. will pop down 2 me local pollin station an nip inta booth an cast me vote... wether its an effin vote or for the Greens jus havn a clue... best of a.. nope thats rong.. least worst of a bad shitty awful bunch... an if me deliberately spoils me papa in protest.. that is as much me democratic rite as votin for darling Alistair lil Nationalist yummie or ne 1 else...

... me knos how Kate is gonna vote.. an am not best pleased.. but thats 'er affair.. she c's things more like u wen it cums 2 that... an so we hav luffly lil tiffs ova breakfast dinna tea an suppa.. not 2 mention all the hours in tween...:bigrin:

[Hephaestion]

I had a bucket of cold water waiting for my MP should he be trying to canvass

However, the nit wit wrote telling of a boundary changes and that consequently I was no longer in his constituency. Bollocks - HE was no longer MY member of Parliament (he was useless at that anyway). His replacement hasn't shown; perhaps he/she has seen the past correspondence from me on Government and Party mistakes and failures.

Suspect that Darkeyes and Canticle are really saying the same thing and that is ALWAYS vote.

I am with Darkeyes on what to do if no one or not Party is worthy of one's vote - one should then spoil the ballot. Currently this is counted.

.

[Canticle]

I had a bucket of cold water waiting for my MP should he be trying to canvass

However, the nit wit wrote telling of a boundary changes and that consequently I was no longer in his constituency. Bollocks - HE was no longer MY member of Parliament (he was useless at that anyway). His replacement hasn't shown; perhaps he/she has seen the past correspondence from me on Government and Party mistakes and failures.

Suspect that Darkeyes and Canticle are really saying the same thing and that is ALWAYS vote.

I am with Darkeyes on what to do if no one or not Party is worthy of one's vote - one should then spoil the ballot. Currently this is counted.

.


Have you studied British Constitution?
Did you kow that a Government, is never voted into office? A Government is voted out of office.
Did you know that the country, gets the Government it deserves?
Did you know, that if you have a good MP, whatever his/her Party colours, one should hold onto him/her?

What worries me, is that we may end up with Esther Rantzen, in the House of Commons. Now that is a scary prospect. That's Life!!

[darkeyes]

Did you know, that if you have a good MP, whatever his/her Party colours, one should hold onto him/her?

What worries me, is that we may end up with Esther Rantzen, in the House of Commons. Now that is a scary prospect. That's Life!!

Esther huh? ugh!

We may well have a good MP Canticle and he or she may well be brilliant on constituency matters and thats an MP's job..or should be.. but no matter how good a MP is at doing that, if she or he belongs to a political party with which I have nothing in common, whose political philosphy is to my mind obscene, and whose policies I vehemently disgree with, and would do to me and mine, and my country, and in its own small way the world irreparable harm by doing things I would abhor, then how could I in all good conscience cast my vote for that individual? She or he may do his job brilliantly in the constituency, but is potentially one of a mass of others who think like her or him.. no hun.. I'll stick to doing things my way, and bugger helping a representative of a party I loathe with every fibre of my being, do her or his bit to screw my interests, and what I believe to be the overall interests of the people of my country and by extension the planet.. whether that be the parliament in Edinburgh, or the one we are about to elect in London..

[Hephaestion]

Have you studied British Constitution?
Did you kow that a Government, is never voted into office? A Government is voted out of office.
Did you know that the country, gets the Government it deserves?
Did you know, that if you have a good MP, whatever his/her Party colours, one should hold onto him/her?

What worries me, is that we may end up with Esther Rantzen, in the House of Commons. Now that is a scary prospect. That's Life!!


"......Have you studied British Constitution?....."
Does Britain have a Consitution or a rag bag of ideas and ad hoc practices?

"....A Government is never voted in..."
There is truth to that. Perhaps it is time for a change where the government represents the proportion of support not the number of constituencies that it has managed to wangle. Currently there is an overall equal 30% support for the 3 major Parties but they will end up with one having double the seats of the second and that second double the seats of the third.

There is also truth to the statement that the populus get the govenrment they deserve. When the populus decide that the government is inappropriate and no one listens then things go wrong and regimes are toppled and replaced. Again, the vote is a non-violent method of reaching change. ALWAYS vote.

Keeping a good MP regardless of colours - 'good' is a very subjective concept. If the Party that they belong to is unpalatable then that's a bit like a drug with side effects, perhaps one that cures the headache by killing the patient with a smile on their face.

As for Esther Rantzen, I am not sure that I know anything about her. She is not a patch on my true goddess - ex-porn star, actress, political activist - Joanna the Lovely whose left buttock I am sworn to protect and serve.

.

[darkeyes]

"......Have you studied British Constitution?....."
Does Britain have a Consitution or a rag bag of ideas and ad hoc practices?

.

At school we were taught the Britain has an unwritten constitution, in that it exists in statute, practice and precedent... so it is in part written, part ad hoc practice and part makin it up asya goes along... no wonda we in a rite effin mess...;) Kids r taught much the same now...

So do we have a constitution? Sure do..a bloody gud 1 an all.. need 2 hav a strong constitution 2 bloody put up wiv wot we dus ova 'ere!!!:tong:

[Canticle]

At school we were taught the Britain has an unwritten constitution, in that it exists in statute, practice and precedent... so it is in part written, part ad hoc practice and part makin it up asya goes along... no wonda we in a rite effin mess...;) Kids r taught much the same now...

So do we have a constitution? Sure do..a bloody gud 1 an all.. need 2 hav a strong constitution 2 bloody put up wiv wot we dus ova 'ere!!!:tong:


Yep Fran....the UK has an unwritten constitution, though, obviously, it is actually written down...otherwise we would not have records going back to Saxon times. An unwritten constitution is easier to change, when new laws are required and therefore, new Acts of Parliament, have got to be debated and passed and receieve the Royal assent (which is a mere formality). It's not ''making it up as we go along''.....far from it. It would be better to think of the British Constitution as a written, unwritten affair. It is a good constitution, a very strong one. It's not perfect, but it has been doing fairly well for over 1000 years and though times may change, people do not.

Oh, when I did my GCE, I got an A. Sorry to be a little modest.

And Heph, the hanging on to a good MP is correct, because once elected, an MP represents all and unless he/she is voting about something of National interest and concern (and even then, take into consideration, the views of constituents), he/she should be working for the constituency represented.....not the political party colour they wear.

That's why I, as a Socialist, will be voting for a Conservative Member of Parliament. He's a gem, an amazingly good representative for his constituents.

The New Labour female, two miles down the road, elected in 1997 has been a hopeless MP.....nothing more than one of Blair's ''Yes'' women. She's retiring.......but she will be retiring to a bloody big house, she managed to buy, during her time as MP and she'll have to make her two daughters, both employed by her, redundant. Talk about keeping it all in the family.

[darkeyes]

Oh, when I did my GCE, I got an A. Sorry to be a little modest.

And Heph, the hanging on to a good MP is correct, because once elected, an MP represents all and unless he/she is voting about something of National interest and concern (and even then, take into consideration, the views of constituents), he/she should be working for the constituency represented.....not the political party colour they wear.

That's why I, as a Socialist, will be voting for a Conservative Member of Parliament. He's a gem, an amazingly good representative for his constituents.

The New Labour female, two miles down the road, elected in 1997 has been a hopeless MP.....nothing more than one of Blair's ''Yes'' women. She's retiring.......but she will be retiring to a bloody big house, she managed to buy, during her time as MP and she'll have to make her two daughters, both employed by her, redundant. Talk about keeping it all in the family.

Nowt wrong with a lil modesty Canticle hun.. modesty is me middle name.... wicheva way ya mean it.. tee hee:tong:

This idea of your MP reresenting everyone within a constituency.. thats ok as far as it goes... but its only partly if at all true, because all too often party interest overrules any constituency interest......many MPs of all parties are very good at constituency matters.. when someone has a problem and they enlist the help of the MP in having it sorted.. but lets put that aside because thats how every MP should be.. they're not.. and you mention one of Blair's women who is hopeless.. another bloody Tory in all but name just like most of Blair's dumplings!

In the greater issues of the day...those which are of interest to all people throughout the country, of Europe, of the world such as climate change, war, overseas aid, the EU...nationally such as the NHS, unemployment, immigration, education, the economy, cuts in public services, law and order, the House of Lords, the voting system etc etc etc.. how a socialist can vote for a Tory because he is "good on constituency matters" is an absolute mystery to me.. it is unfathomable.. British Conservatism and Socialism are as far apart as Southern California is from London in political terms.. they have absolutely NOTHING in common save the fact that Conservatism and Socialism exist in the minds of human beings.. when you vote for your MP, yes, you do vote for someone who will represent your interests in constituency matters, but more importantly in a national election you vote for a Government which will (hopefully) define the direction your country takes over the following 4 or 5 years, and if that government is imaginative and inspired enough who knows, possibly for a generation and more..

To vote for one who is politically opposed to what you believe, as a representative of a party which will strive to crush and destroy everything in which you believe on the grounds he is "decent" on constituency matters is like a lemming running head first toward the cliff.. he may well be nice to you and help you sort out your council tax but what he will also be doing is voting for and arguing for things which should be abhorrent to a socialist.. so while he is sorting out your council tax he will be voting for measures which could well cost you the ability to pay that council tax, such as cuts in employment, sickness and disablement benefits, or even costing you your job.. and worse...

For a socialist to vote for Tory is nuts.. everything Toryism is, everything it stands for, everything it aspires to is anathema to a Socialist.. there is no such thing as a Tory "gem".. except to other Tories...

[darkeyes]

Wos jus thinkin bout the title a this thread.. an considrin the reality a wot a Cameron govt is gonna mean.. now me knos as well as ne 1 that all this nice brit chatter tween canticle an me an heph is sod all 2 do wiv the thread.. thats life (not Esther ok?).. but on Thursday we do hav a general election an woteva happens will mean a lot 2 every 1 in the UK so bear wiv us.. loosely it dus hav summat 2 do wiv the title a the thread but so loose that ya wudn notice.

If Cameron wins a clear majority..like all gud Tory govts.. fringe Britain (how Toryism c's it).. an by that me means Scotland, Wales, the North of England an Northern Ireland will as it always dus wen ther is a Tory govt will suffer the brunt a Tory policy.. it will be hit hardest, screwed worst an the Tory heartlands a the south in general an the south east in particular will take woteva benefit that Tory policy brings wiv it..an a course big biz an the rich will do ver nicely tyvm.. as it always dus an all.. the point me is makin 'ere is this... the se will float.. it will float cos a the financial an economic benefits wich will flow 2 it cos a govt policy.. the otha parts a the country will begin 2 feel even more than they do now the weight a economic depression an so it is outside that South Eastern bubble wich will sink... as it always has.. as it did unda Thatcher an Major an previous Tory govts before them..

Ther is a big change tho in how UK PLC works nowadays.. Scotland has its own parliament an Wales an Northern Ireland ther own assemblies.. wile ther economic powers r limited, it will b interestin 2 c jus how 3 non Tory administrations in these countries cope wiv a Tory govt.. an how a Tory govt copes wiv them... me has no doubt wotsoeva that Scotlands Nationalist govt an Wales' Labour administration will within a short space a time cum inta conflict an quite serious conflict wiv the London govt.. am sayin nowt bout Northern Ireland cos they r quite an exceptional case cosa the recent history a the province. The march 2 independence in Scotland particularly cud well b speeded up if Cameron an 'is cronies make a mess a things in ther dealins wiv Scotland an Wales.. an make a mess a things me fully expects them 2 do as Tory govts always do in respect a those 2 countries..

The advent of a Tory Liberal govt wich is a possibility givs me no confidence cos it jus wudn work an cudn last.. ther r far 2 many fundamental differences tween the parties.. wivin 6 months Cameron wud call an election ne way, even more so if 'e decides 2 soldier on wiv a minority govt.. an afta that election..shud 'e win..wich me fully expects 'im 2 wiv a clear majority ova otha parties.. then all hell breaks loose an the UK will sink quite quickly inta the mire a greed, selfishness an misery.

No doubt lotsa peeps will as is ther rite take issue wiv ne or all that me has sed.. its a personal slant.. its how me c's things goin afta Thursday.. havn even mentioned Labour.. for now am afraid they r irrelevant.. it breaks me heart 2 say it cosa me personal history an until recently, long time involvement in the party, but for now, the truth as me c's it.. I cud fuckin weep... :disgust:

[Hephaestion]

Canticle - you must vote according to your conscience and your values. If an MP is good in your opinion so be it. Perhaps the person that you eulogise is on the point of defecting, perhaps living a lie to themselves or their party. Who knows.

However, the fact that they ally themselves to a set of colours rather suggests that their outlook is also that of the colours. The extent of their thinking only becomes apparent under test and then it may be too late.

As for the British Constitution, that has relied traditionally on the supremacy of The Law and the supremacy of Parliament. Both are now in the umbra of the EU as has been demonstrated time and again. Maybe we shall have a single point constitution eventually rather than relying on some smart pants giving us an interpretaton - possibly the same kind of revolution as the Church faced with the advent of the Printing press and 'common English' publication?

It would be a shame if the British Isles did break up irrevocably. We each have strengths and weaknesses and together we make a marvelous whole.

In the meanwhile, it would seem we are back to the original fear - 'the ice age commeth' (while everyone else is roasting their chestnuts in the sun).

.


.

[Canticle]

''Nowt wrong with a lil modesty Canticle hun.. modesty is me middle name.... wicheva way ya mean it.. tee hee:tong:''

I'll not say a word there...:bigrin:

''This idea of your MP reresenting everyone within a constituency.. thats ok as far as it goes... but its only partly if at all true, because all too often party interest overrules any constituency interest......many MPs of all parties are very good at constituency matters.. when someone has a problem and they enlist the help of the MP in having it sorted.. but lets put that aside because thats how every MP should be.. they're not.. and you mention one of Blair's women who is hopeless.. another bloody Tory in all but name just like most of Blair's dumplings!''

Maybe my MP is a little different, because he's a working class boy and was even a miner for awhile and comes from a mining family. He truly is a fantastic MP....and I'd not say that, if it wasn't true......I'd be saying exactly the same as you.

''Blair's dumplings''.......I like that!!

''In the greater issues of the day...those which are of interest to all people throughout the country, of Europe, of the world such as climate change, war, overseas aid, the EU...nationally such as the NHS, unemployment, immigration, education, the economy, cuts in public services, law and order, the House of Lords, the voting system etc etc etc.. how a socialist can vote for a Tory because he is "good on constituency matters" is an absolute mystery to me.. it is unfathomable.. British Conservatism and Socialism are as far apart as Southern California is from London in political terms.. they have absolutely NOTHING in common save the fact that Conservatism and Socialism exist in the minds of human beings.. when you vote for your MP, yes, you do vote for someone who will represent your interests in constituency matters, but more importantly in a national election you vote for a Government which will (hopefully) define the direction your country takes over the following 4 or 5 years, and if that government is imaginative and inspired enough who knows, possibly for a generation and more..''

Are you so sure there is a big difference?

Maybe there was.....once upon a time.....but as we have seen with New Labour (how the heck can you have New Labour), the middle classes have taken over....most of them ruddy barristers.

I think it is interesting that the last leader of New Labour, came from a Conservative background. How I wish Portillo had been leader of the Conservative Party, because it would have made for interesting viewing, A Labour leader, from a Tory background, facing a Conservarive leader, from a Socialist background, across the House.

Sadly, that was ever to be and I think it did Michael Portillo, the world of good, to lose his seat in 1997, When he returned to the House of Commons representing Kensington, he was a very different man, the arrogance knocked out of him and he also became disillusioned with his party and politics in general. I like Portillo....the new one.

I can remember some amazing Labour MPs, from the good old days and I'm talking about, when I was a kid. Ex union men and women, good working class stock, as well as those from the higher echelons of society. They really did believe what they said. I think Gordon Brown does. The trouble is, he's too decent......and lacking that charismatic streak, that a leader needs.

I don't think much will change, when it comes to all those different things you mentioned. Not one bit. The Party we do NOT need to be in power, or to have any big say in any joint Governing of the land, is the Liberal Democrat Party. They would sell us down the river, for 30 pieces of silver.

''To vote for one who is politically opposed to what you believe, as a representative of a party which will strive to crush and destroy everything in which you believe on the grounds he is "decent" on constituency matters is like a lemming running head first toward the cliff.. he may well be nice to you and help you sort out your council tax but what he will also be doing is voting for and arguing for things which should be abhorrent to a socialist.. so while he is sorting out your council tax he will be voting for measures which could well cost you the ability to pay that council tax, such as cuts in employment, sickness and disablement benefits, or even costing you your job.. and worse...''

Oh, you're so wrong Fran...so, so wrong. He's far more than a ''sorting the council tax,'' boy.....Oh, man...he sure is.

Maybe it's an age thing.....our views can mellow and change as we get older....about some things. This lemming will be heading in land...and voting and hoping that none of the buggers get elected......that is how I feel about Parliamentary Party Politics.

I've always voted and I think that we should vote. He who will get divorced has never voted and is quite proud of that. I tell him....''Just don't complain about anything afterwards.''

I asked my son if he was going to vote and went on about the people who had fought for equality when it comes to voting. His answer.....''If those people fought for me to have the right to vote, all those years ago, it means they were also fighting for me to be able to abstain from voting.''

I raised an argey bargey set of sprogs

I think this will be an interesting election....maybe more interesting than that awful New Labour landslide victory, of 1997......not enough of an opposition for them. We'll see.

Whoever gets in...cuts will be made...promises broken.....but one thing we can be thankful for.....the run up to the election, only lasts three weeks to a month.....so doesn't whip up the hysteria seen in other countries.....I won't say which :tong:

''For a socialist to vote for Tory is nuts.. everything Toryism is, everything it stands for, everything it aspires to is anathema to a Socialist.. there is no such thing as a Tory "gem".. except to other Tories...''

Smiles...ahhhh...but like everything else, I have a view on, or a belief in.....I'm my kind of Socialist.

Tell you what....I'll retract the ''gem,'' and replace it with, ''the diamond in the dung heap.'' :);):rolleyes:

[Canticle]

Canticle - you must vote according to your conscience and your values. If an MP is good in your opinion so be it. Perhaps the person that you eulogise is on the point of defecting, perhaps living a lie to themselves or their party. Who knows.

However, the fact that they ally themselves to a set of colours rather suggests that their outlook is also that of the colours. The extent of their thinking only becomes apparent under test and then it may be too late.

As for the British Constitution, that has relied traditionally on the supremacy of The Law and the supremacy of Parliament. Both are now in the umbra of the EU as has been demonstrated time and again. Maybe we shall have a single point constitution eventually rather than relying on some smart pants giving us an interpretaton - possibly the same kind of revolution as the Church faced with the advent of the Printing press and 'common English' publication?

It would be a shame if the British Isles did break up irrevocably. We each have strengths and weaknesses and together we make a marvelous whole.

In the meanwhile, it would seem we are back to the original fear - 'the ice age commeth' (while everyone else is roasting their chestnuts in the sun).

.


.



No....he's a Conservative.....and the lad is not for turning.

Guess what......I never, ever thought we should have joined the Economic Union, as far back as 1973, when Edward Heath got us involved with the ''Common Market''.....and I voted against it in the referendum, that the Wilson Government, put before the country.

I don't consider myself European....this being an island state and not attached to mainland Europe, except for that damn tunnel (another mistake).

I'm English, of European heritage and British, for official purposes only.

I really am, very ockered.

[Hephaestion]

Canticle

"Thick Fog in Channel - Continent Isolated"

Unfortunately we are not in a position to survive alone (population density versus resources is one argument).

By English I assume that you mean belonging to the wave of Anglish (Angles, Saxons, and Jutes) immigrants rather than the earlier Celts and then the subsequent Romano-'Europeans'. Following the Anglish there were of course the waves of Nordic and Franco-Nordic immigrants followed by the cosmopolitan mix of later years. The modern English language - a bastard tongue - reflects all of this.

I once asked Boris Johnston Mayor of London who spoke of his Turkish ancestry just when did a person become Brit or English. The topic is prominent because of the crucial (perhaps an unPC word in itself) situation that the Isles find themselves in following the difficulties of multiculturalism. Will a physcally or nomenclaturally distinguishable person ever achieve total integration and acceptance or are we destined to follow the USA?

Incidentally, Head Teeth lied about the British fishing rights and for that should be vilified.

.

[darkeyes]

I am first and foremost a human being. I am easy with multiculturalism.. I see it everywhere I go. Even in my 30 years I have seen so many changes in my city and my country.. I have seen us become enriched by new music, new literature and new thought.. it is wonderful.. not without problems I admit, but throughout the long history of these islands, influxes of people have always caused problems in one way or other.. it cannot be avoided.. yet I welcome them with open arms and see my country, and I use it in its fullest context, the United Kingdom, change before my eyes.. change for the better.

Scotland is my country, the United Kingdom my state, the European Union my fledgling dream of a unified humanity living in peace without borders.. I am European, but I repeat, first and foremost I am a human being. My brothers and sisters are African, Asian, European, American, Australasian, Polynesian and I bear no ill will to any. I dream of the day when all of my brothers and sisters can live in peace and tranquility in a world where we can live where we wish, travel where we want live as one people in a community where we work together without malice, without bigotry, without violence and in commune with the world about us. Where we treat our planet with the respect it is due. The "Little Englander" xenophobic attitudes have no place in our world.. we see where it has brought us, and look back on history It has raised empires, enslaved, oppressed and impoverished whole peoples, and brought riches and great power to a very few. It has raped our planet in the name of progress all to further empower and enrich those very few while the vast majority are lied to that it is for the greater good of King and country.. we believe ourselves somehow superior to our brothers and sisters of other lands and consider their lives somehow less and worthless in comparison to our own.. thus giving us the moral superiority to do and take what we will at their expense... and in the case of my country now..we do not wish to be a part of the greater world..of that great community of people..the suspicion of those damned foreigners borders on the racial rantings of Nazi Germany.. we are better therefore we will stay apart.. we will not join.. they must be kept out.. they are less than we are.. they are different.. God... sometimes I could swing for my countrymen and women.. they are so fucking blind.. they just seem so incapable of seeing that we are all human beings.. "We are all" in the old Scots phrase "Jock Tamson's bairns"!

I will stick to my dreams thank you very much. Socialism is how I believe these dreams can be realised.. Toryism, Liberalism, New Labourism, Nationalism they are all the same to me now.. they are all forms of the same.. they are in this day and age forms of the same thing.. Toryism comes in degrees.. all four of these "ideologies" are to me one and the same... they are merely degrees of Toryism.. and parties like the BNP? And UKIP? Even worse and more extreme right wing forms of the same.. thats the cost of people thinking with the "Little Englander" mind set.. and I truly hope people can see just how dangerous that is before it is too late and we really make a total cock of things..

[Canticle]

''Canticle''

Heph!

You just know I'm gonna disagree with you.....dontcha.......:bigrin:

"Thick Fog in Channel - Continent Isolated"

Does that mean we can pretend that Europe doesn't exist??

''Unfortunately we are not in a position to survive alone (population density versus resources is one argument).''

One answer....we have a Commonwealth. We owe them more than we owe modern Europe.

''By English I assume that you mean belonging to the wave of Anglish (Angles, Saxons, and Jutes) immigrants rather than the earlier Celts and then the subsequent Romano-'Europeans'. Following the Anglish there were of course the waves of Nordic and Franco-Nordic immigrants followed by the cosmopolitan mix of later years. The modern English language - a bastard tongue - reflects all of this.''

Yes, dear...I do.....I have a lot of Viking blood....are you surprised..:bigrin: My late mother's maiden name has it's roots in Danish Viking ancestry. My father's surname (which I was deprived of, because my mother didn't like it), is probably older in derivation, than Anglo-Saxon. What else there is....I wouldn't know...I wasn't around at the time. There is supposed to be some French on my father's side...but we won't dwell on that, it's not his fault and anyway, it was what he was told, so unless I found the records.....zilch.

I do love out bastard tongue.........but not the way some bastardise it.

''I once asked Boris Johnston Mayor of London who spoke of his Turkish ancestry just when did a person become Brit or English. The topic is prominent because of the crucial (perhaps an unPC word in itself) situation that the Isles find themselves in following the difficulties of multiculturalism. Will a physcally or nomenclaturally distinguishable person ever achieve total integration and acceptance or are we destined to follow the USA?''

Now, I didn't know old Boris had Turkish ancestry. I was thinking it was probably Russian. Golly gosh, one does learn new things every day.

What the future holds.....who kows? As far as I am concerned if someone is born in the Uk, they are British and if born in one of the four countries, which go to make up the UK, then they are either, English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish, no matter what their colour, religion, part of the world their ancestors are from. Same goes for those who are not born in the UK, but take British citizenship.

Don't mention that man with the teeth.

All the housewives love a sailor
All the housewives love a tar
For there's something about a sailor
And you know what sailors are
Free and easy
Bright and breezy
He's the housewives' pride and joy
He fell in love with Morning Cloud
Now he's off to sea again
Ship ahoy, Ship ahoy

Incidentally, Head Teeth lied about the British fishing rights and for that should be vilified.

[Canticle]

I am first and foremost a human being. I am easy with multiculturalism.. I see it everywhere I go. Even in my 30 years I have seen so many changes in my city and my country.. I have seen us become enriched by new music, new literature and new thought.. it is wonderful.. not without problems I admit, but throughout the long history of these islands, influxes of people have always caused problems in one way or other.. it cannot be avoided.. yet I welcome them with open arms and see my country, and I use it in its fullest context, the United Kingdom, change before my eyes.. change for the better.

Scotland is my country, the United Kingdom my state, the European Union my fledgling dream of a unified humanity living in peace without borders.. I am European, but I repeat, first and foremost I am a human being. My brothers and sisters are African, Asian, European, American, Australasian, Polynesian and I bear no ill will to any. I dream of the day when all of my brothers and sisters can live in peace and tranquility in a world where we can live where we wish, travel where we want live as one people in a community where we work together without malice, without bigotry, without violence and in commune with the world about us. Where we treat our planet with the respect it is due. The "Little Englander" xenophobic attitudes have no place in our world.. we see where it has brought us, and look back on history It has raised empires, enslaved, oppressed and impoverished whole peoples, and brought riches and great power to a very few. It has raped our planet in the name of progress all to further empower and enrich those very few while the vast majority are lied to that it is for the greater good of King and country.. we believe ourselves somehow superior to our brothers and sisters of other lands and consider their lives somehow less and worthless in comparison to our own.. thus giving us the moral superiority to do and take what we will at their expense... and in the case of my country now..we do not wish to be a part of the greater world..of that great community of people..the suspicion of those damned foreigners borders on the racial rantings of Nazi Germany.. we are better therefore we will stay apart.. we will not join.. they must be kept out.. they are less than we are.. they are different.. God... sometimes I could swing for my countrymen and women.. they are so fucking blind.. they just seem so incapable of seeing that we are all human beings.. "We are all" in the old Scots phrase "Jock Tamson's bairns"!

I will stick to my dreams thank you very much. Socialism is how I believe these dreams can be realised.. Toryism, Liberalism, New Labourism, Nationalism they are all the same to me now.. they are all forms of the same.. they are in this day and age forms of the same thing.. Toryism comes in degrees.. all four of these "ideologies" are to me one and the same... they are merely degrees of Toryism.. and parties like the BNP? And UKIP? Even worse and more extreme right wing forms of the same.. thats the cost of people thinking with the "Little Englander" mind set.. and I truly hope people can see just how dangerous that is before it is too late and we really make a total cock of things..



Ooooohhhhh, you are a one, as Kenneth Williams would have said!

I don't disagree with your very passionate rant, and please keep them up...they are refreshing. I don't disagree...except for one thing.........the EU....it was never meant to head towards being a European state, in the political sense. It was meant to be a Common Market, an Economic Union. I don't believe an United States of Europe will ever happen and I hope it never does. It wouldn't be the same as the USA, which has had people from many countries emigrate to it. An USE would comprise of already sovereign states....with very different cultures and languages. I pray to the Cosmos that it never happens.

However, like you, I consider every human my brother or sister, You prick us, we all bleed red blood. You torture us, we all scream. You kill us...well, we all do the obvious...we die.

I'm still English and British for official purposes only and I have no love of being a patriot. I'm just born English......could have been any race, creed or colour.

Being English, or Scottish, or Irish is about more than Nationality, it's about the land, the mountains, the hills, the river valleys, the coast. So many things.

It's about being born in London, but knowing one is not a Londoner. My blood in Yorkshire and Lancashire and I have always felt at home with the accents and the people owning those accents, yet my father had all but lost his Lancashire accent and my grandmother never spoke with a broad Yorkshire accent, she frowned upon it.

It's what is in your blood and in your heart. I could go anywhere in this world, but I'd always be English.

[darkeyes]

Ooooohhhhh, you are a one, as Kenneth Williams would have said!

I don't disagree with your very passionate rant, and please keep them up...they are refreshing. I don't disagree...except for one thing.........the EU....it was never meant to head towards being a European state, in the political sense. It was meant to be a Common Market, an Economic Union. I don't believe an United States of Europe will ever happen and I hope it never does. It wouldn't be the same as the USA, which has had people from many countries emigrate to it. An USE would comprise of already sovereign states....with very different cultures and languages. I pray to the Cosmos that it never happens.

However, like you, I consider every human my brother or sister, You prick us, we all bleed red blood. You torture us, we all scream. You kill us...well, we all do the obvious...we die.

I'm still English and British for official purposes only and I have no love of being a patriot. I'm just born English......could have been any race, creed or colour.

Being English, or Scottish, or Irish is about more than Nationality, it's about the land, the mountains, the hills, the river valleys, the coast. So many things.

It's about being born in London, but knowing one is not a Londoner. My blood in Yorkshire and Lancashire and I have always felt at home with the accents and the people owning those accents, yet my father had all but lost his Lancashire accent and my grandmother never spoke with a broad Yorkshire accent, she frowned upon it.

It's what is in your blood and in your heart. I could go anywhere in this world, but I'd always be English.

Actually you're wrong.. de Gaulle and Adenaur and others intended and declared from the very beginning that the creation of the Iron and Steel Community (the fledgeling common market and predecessor to the European Union) that it was but the first step to a European Federation. There has never been any question that this is the ultimate goal, and successive British Governments have been dishonest in ever saying otherwise.

You are right in that we owe a great deal to the Commonwealth.. as much out of guilt as loyalty to a friend. But our cultural roots and our geography lie within Europe, the vast majority of our trade is with Europe and we cut our own economic balls off at our peril should we ever decide to leave.. at a stroke our markets disappear and the country would be bankrupt within months. Even should the Union agree to continue trade at anything near its present levels such would the increase in tariffs be that the cost of living in the UK would rocket and our pay cheques just wouldnt keep up. It is too late to leave without chaos and disaster..

It seems we feel the same about humanity but do not agree in the solution to unifying our kind.. or even if it desirable at all.. thats ok.. but leaving the EU, or even remaining out on a limb within it are not really options.. if the UK gets its knickers in at just like the greeks.. not outwith the realms of possibility.. where do we run to for help? Remaining outside the Eurozone means we are more at risk and less able to call on the EU for economic bale out.. the IMF and world bank?? *shivers*... God help us...

[Hephaestion]

1) Engaging sincere warmth and affection as one starts

2) Danish-Viking counts as nordic and not Anglish. The Pre-Anglish surname could be anything. Remember that the Roman Empire spanned to modern e.g. southern Germany, Syria, Lybia, the Iberian peninssula and its citizens were Roman enough to serve where told.

3) At one time, tyhe Common market was parallelled (you work out how many 'l' s should be in that) by EFTA. EFTA collapsed because of Britain's poor economic performance (no investment for the future, just creaming it off - sounds familiar). The Commonwealth was mutually abandoned by Britain and other important members and remains a token organisation.

4) A Federal EU was always part of the design. The original plan (1950's / 60's) was to have another capitalist based political entity - the USE (whether by EFTA or Common market route) to balance out the two communist based organisations of the day the USSR and Red China (now China owns the world).

5) Boris' grandad was a big noise in the Ottoman Court. Boris says that he cannot account for the appearance of blonde mop and suggested that it was someting to do with moving north west and being friendly with the natives.

6) It is now well known that the Greeks are in fact knickerless else they wouldn't be borrowing. At other times they have been knickerless for pleasure. At the age of 20-25 their women turn into bearded men and so this accounts for their fame as the 'nation that invented it'. They even have it in their songs.

"...A young girl from Mirtylini (who would have let me marry her); an olive skinned girl from Chios (where the girls are gynandrous); a blonde from Icari (where the girls are gynandrous [also]). So I sold my boat and we travelled to Pireus where the four of us lived together..."

Hephaestion and Alexander or Alexander and Hephaestion depending on mood - sweety! (does one wonder why I use that monika?).

Hugs
.

[darkeyes]

1) Engaging sincere warmth and affection as one starts

2) Danish-Viking counts as nordic and not Anglish. The Pre-Anglish surname could be anything. Remember that the Roman Empire spanned to modern e.g. southern Germany, Syria, Lybia, the Iberian peninssula and its citizens were Roman enough to serve where told.

3) At one time, tyhe Common market was parallelled (you work out how many 'l' s should be in that) by EFTA. EFTA collapsed because of Britain's poor economic performance (no investment for the future, just creaming it off - sounds familiar). The Commonwealth was mutually abandoned by Britain and other important members and remains a token organisation.

4) A Federal EU was always part of the design. The original plan (1950's / 60's) was to have another capitalist based political entity - the USE (whether by EFTA or Common market route) to balance out the two communist based organisations of the day the USSR and Red China (now China owns the world).

5) Boris' grandad was a big noise in the Ottoman Court. Boris says that he cannot account for the appearance of blonde mop and suggested that it was someting to do with moving north west and being friendly with the natives.

6) It is now well known that the Greeks are in fact knickerless else they wouldn't be borrowing. At other times they have been knickerless for pleasure. At the age of 20-25 their women turn into bearded men and so this accounts for their fame as the 'nation that invented it'. They even have it in their songs.

"...A young girl from Mirtylini (who would have let me marry her); an olive skinned girl from Chios (where the girls are gynandrous); a blonde from Icari (where the girls are gynandrous [also]). So I sold my boat and we travelled to Pireus where the four of us lived together..."

Hephaestion and Alexander or Alexander and Hephaestion depending on mood - sweety! (does one wonder why I use that monika?).

Hugs
.

Hahaha Heph..ya dus keep me sane sumtimes wivya lil funnies (sumtimes..me sed.. don get 2 cocky).. ta hun..

Talkin a knickerless Greeks.. got off wiv a Greek girl once down ur way.. she wos knickerless.. me an all back at hotel:eek:...she wos also an advert 2 not let the puss becum wild an overgrown... howeva.. me ovacame prejudice ther an we had ver nice time tyvm!!:bigrin: Least she had gud sense not 2 hav beards unda the armpits... that wudda put me rite off..:rolleyes:

[Canticle]

''Actually you're wrong.. de Gaulle and Adenaur and others intended and declared from the very beginning that the creation of the Iron and Steel Community (the fledgeling common market and predecessor to the European Union) that it was but the first step to a European Federation. There has never been any question that this is the ultimate goal, and successive British Governments have been dishonest in ever saying otherwise.''

Well, heck Fran, I never said I was right about everything. Back in 1973, when the ineffectual and loser of a Party Leader and Prime Minister, Edward Heath, got the French to say ''Oui''.....and the other, very few countries, at the time, to follow suit, people were very definitely led to believe, that joining the Common Market (subsequently the European Union), was for trade and nothing more. I don't doubt that the French and the Germans had a very different agenda, them both thinking that they should laud it over the other members of the ''Union''.....and thank the Cosmos, the British Governments, since 1973, have said, ''NO'' to so many different things.

Now there are member states from Greece to the Baltic and those poorer countries will do the bleeding dry. The European Union has become ridiculously big and is a monster, not something to crave being a part of. The whole thing will eventually blow apart and I believe many people, from all over Europe, will cheer and throw hats into the air.

''You are right in that we owe a great deal to the Commonwealth.. as much out of guilt as loyalty to a friend.''

No, Fran......not out of guilt....not now! That is all part of the Commonwealth's history and it is a history, which all member countries can learn something from. The Commonwealth, as you well know, does not belong to the UK, it belongs to all the member countries and if the rest of the Commonwealth, thought that the UK was behaving in a most abhorrent manner, then they could kick us out.

We have more in common with the countries we colonised, it's like a family. It started out, as all Empires do, as something bad and then turned into something which can be admired by other large, over large, sprawling unions. Separate states, with a shared connection. People from Canada, Australia, New Zealand have ancestors and relatives here in the UK, as do many of the other Commonwealth states. Our first duty was to those countries, not the many European states, with whom we will never agree, despite having shared bloodlines and certain cultural ties.

''But our cultural roots and our geography lie within Europe, the vast majority of our trade is with Europe and we cut our own economic balls off at our peril should we ever decide to leave.. at a stroke our markets disappear and the country would be bankrupt within months.''

I disagree,,,,we shared our British culture with the world, in many different ways. When we joined the Common Market, we turned out backs upon our Commonwealth brothers and sisters and replaced them with untrustworthy European cousins.

Once upon a time we traded with all nations and did not bow down to some distant European Parliament and allow it to make laws, which over rule many of our own sovereign laws and statutes.

''Even should the Union agree to continue trade at anything near its present levels such would the increase in tariffs be that the cost of living in the UK would rocket and our pay cheques just wouldnt keep up. It is too late to leave without chaos and disaster..''

Our country is already one of the most expensive in the world.....go figure! Since we joined that demonic set up, called the Common Market, this country has been asked to contribute more and more money and for what? A set up, where France and Germany, still like to rule the roost and now we have the poorer countries, which were formerly Communist states, enlarging the monstrosity and in turn, they will bleed the richer countries dry.

''It seems we feel the same about humanity but do not agree in the solution to unifying our kind.. or even if it desirable at all.. thats ok.. but leaving the EU, or even remaining out on a limb within it are not really options.. if the UK gets its knickers in at just like the greeks.. not outwith the realms of possibility.. where do we run to for help? Remaining outside the Eurozone means we are more at risk and less able to call on the EU for economic bale out.. the IMF and world bank?? *shivers*... God help us...''

If the Greeks had not been allowed to join the fiasco, they would not be causng the European Union, itself, all the heartache that will come. Remaining independent, is not necessarily sitting in Limbo. It wasn't before we joined and plenty of other countries have stayed out, understanding that there was a threat to National Sovereignty. This European Union and a possible USE, is not one country, like the USA, made up of separate states, within one country. An USE would be sovereign states, already having their own, very separate constitutions. It would not last. It would end in war.

I say....the Cosmos help us.....when I think of that scenario.

[Canticle]

''Engaging sincere warmth and affection as one starts''

Sure!

''2) Danish-Viking counts as nordic and not Anglish. The Pre-Anglish surname could be anything. Remember that the Roman Empire spanned to modern e.g. southern Germany, Syria, Lybia, the Iberian peninssula and its citizens were Roman enough to serve where told.''

Heph.....I am fully aware that Danish (and Norwegian), Viking counts as Nordic. I also know where my bloodline comes from and the derivation, of my mother's maiden name (not one, I am likely to post).

I am also fully aware, of how large the Roman Empire was and that Roman legions, had many different nationalities serving in the ranks and probably in civilian attachment. I also know, that slaves, from different parts of the Roman Empire, would have lived and died in the British Isles and more than likely, had offspring, who then became part of the gene pool.

Roman centurions had to serve for 25 years and upon retiring, had a choice....go back to where they had originated from.....or stay in the country, that had served as home for many years. Many would have taken local women as brides, raised families.......so what would they do. seems fairly obvious. Even if the unions were not official, the pull of family would be likely to keep them here, there...or wherever.

I know that we are a mongrel nation, which is what makes us so strong and determined. Of course, if one has Yorkshire blood , flowing through ones veins, it does help........sweet smile. :rolleyes:

We have been invaded and settled, by the people of man other lands.......but never invaded and conquered, as a nation....bits of it....since 1066. Unless one can count a few of Napoleon's lot, who landed in Wales and got beaten to a pulp by the women.........if, indeed, that is a true story.

''3) At one time, tyhe Common market was parallelled (you work out how many 'l' s should be in that) by EFTA. EFTA collapsed because of Britain's poor economic performance (no investment for the future, just creaming it off - sounds familiar). The Commonwealth was mutually abandoned by Britain and other important members and remains a token organisation.''

I totally disagree. I would say every country goes through poor economic performance, whether it be real, or manufactured, to cover, tother, deeper problems. Sure, we never invest for the future, but since 1973, we have been pouring money down the throats of the Europeans.

Yes, the UK did abandon the Commonwealth, unless it suited otherwise, but it is far from a token organisation. I think that is a very incorrect statement.

And I would never dream, of correcting your spelling, or grammar, or anything else. I was raised to believe that this was the height of ignorance

''4) A Federal EU was always part of the design. The original plan (1950's / 60's) was to have another capitalist based political entity - the USE (whether by EFTA or Common market route) to balance out the two communist based organisations of the day the USSR and Red China (now China owns the world).''

Well....why did we fight a world war, for our freedom, if it was to hand it back to a federal Europe. No, I don't accept that and you know what...it will never happen. Never. I'd fight against that...and be willing to give my life in that fight, as would many more.

''5) Boris' grandad was a big noise in the Ottoman Court. Boris says that he cannot account for the appearance of blonde mop and suggested that it was someting to do with moving north west and being friendly with the natives.''

Actually, there appear to be quite a few ''fair'' Turkish. I know I have seen many. One grandfather, isn't all of Boris Johnson's DNA. Some genes seem to override others. A bit like my children all looking like me and my family and not that of their father. My granddaughter too....and she is half Italian.....Sicilian, to be exact....and her mother has a surname which has Arab and African leanings and she shows in her colouring, some of the hair colour, seen so often in the Normans, The Normans, who conquered Sicily and their ancestors were Vikings. But, heck.....the little one looks like me andthat goes for everything about her......so she'll be ockered too.

''6) It is now well known that the Greeks are in fact knickerless else they wouldn't be borrowing. At other times they have been knickerless for pleasure. At the age of 20-25 their women turn into bearded men and so this accounts for their fame as the 'nation that invented it'. They even have it in their songs.''

Ho Ho.....I guess that was humour!

"...A young girl from Mirtylini (who would have let me marry her); an olive skinned girl from Chios (where the girls are gynandrous); a blonde from Icari (where the girls are gynandrous [also]). So I sold my boat and we travelled to Pireus where the four of us lived together..."

Yeah, Yeah

''Hephaestion and Alexander or Alexander and Hephaestion depending on mood - sweety! (does one wonder why I use that monika?).''

Alexander the Great was a blondie.......go figure!

''Hugs''

I don't hug.

PS......I also have Anglo-Saxon and all the other stuff ancestry, too......and another thing....I don't like being patronised. I'm not thick!

[Hephaestion]

Canticle

1) I don't patronise or think of people as thick. However, there is a clear lack of facts.

2) Reporting what Boris Johnson said in the context of TV displayed photographs is more likely to be correct than going on about blondes in the the Ottoman Empire.

Be aware that the Turks practiced a 'Hearts and Minds' policy as did others in history. What they did was to take those that they believed would be of use to them, take them to the 'homeland' and induct them. Part of this was an effort at beautification of the 'race'. Where else has this happened? So modern day Turks are in fact a cosmopolitan bunch that includes both near and far indigenous peoples, including blondes with blues eyes.

As for Alexander the Great there is no surprise that he was a blonde (and likely blue eyed) many of the mediterranean people do have those attributes. There is also a high incidence of redheads with green eyes in places. Possibly something to do with trading, mobility, mercenaries and armies making their way through. How does an old Greek family end up with a name like Kelly? It could be phonetically similar but what about the red hair and green eyes.

3) What happened in WWII does not necessarily mean that the nation will continue along a particular path. Britain has moved on. This is not new. Historically, in the Crimean war the British fleet destroyed that of the Turkish empire (mainly Egyptian). Britain then swapped sides and supported the Turks against Russia to prevent the Russians getting a hold in the eastern Mediterranean. The successful admiral was made a scapegoat.

I repeat that the latter day intention was to create politically balancing federal United States of Europe from day one. This was also in the textbooks of the day.

4) Poor investment has ALWAYS been the problem with this nation. That companies were underperforming and not being invested in has been known for ages. In the comedy series 'Yes Minister' the lead character is named after the real 1960's assest stripping business man Jim Hacker. He recognised the fact that companies were faliing and yet continuing to pay performance dividends (how familiar). The attempt to make Britain competitive was carried out by undermining the status of British workers in a 'free trade' economy and by killing off the trade unions in the process. Meanwhile Piggy heaven was introduced for the executive chain. Selling things off is how this nation has duped the world into believing that it was economically sound whilst the populus was hoodwinked with the feelgood factor of buying cheap goods. That and being buddies with the USA. Blair did what Harold Wilson declined to do and that was join the USA in war. The nation's credit rating was therefore given a profilactic innoculation against being declared bankrupt.

So don't laugh too loudly at the Greeks as Britain is but a footstep behind. The Greeks are about to undergo savage public spending cutbacks as we are also - just wait until the election is over.

5) There has not been any spelling or grammar merely the eroneous classification that was offered.

Please accept my goodwill in all of this

H.

[Canticle]

Canticle

1) I don't patronise or think of people as thick. However, there is a clear lack of facts.

2) Reporting what Boris Johnson said in the context of TV displayed photographs is more likely to be correct than going on about blondes in the the Ottoman Empire.

Be aware that the Turks practiced a 'Hearts and Minds' policy as did others in history. What they did was to take those that they believed would be of use to them, take them to the 'homeland' and induct them. Part of this was an effort at beautification of the 'race'. Where else has this happened? So modern day Turks are in fact a cosmopolitan bunch that includes both near and far indigenous peoples, including blondes with blues eyes.

As for Alexander the Great there is no surprise that he was a blonde (and likely blue eyed) many of the mediterranean people do have those attributes. There is also a high incidence of redheads with green eyes in places. Possibly something to do with trading, mobility, mercenaries and armies making their way through. How does an old Greek family end up with a name like Kelly? It could be phonetically similar but what about the red hair and green eyes.

3) What happened in WWII does not necessarily mean that the nation will continue along a particular path. Britain has moved on. This is not new. Historically, in the Crimean war the British fleet destroyed that of the Turkish empire (mainly Egyptian). Britain then swapped sides and supported the Turks against Russia to prevent the Russians getting a hold in the eastern Mediterranean. The successful admiral was made a scapegoat.

I repeat that the latter day intention was to create politically balancing federal United States of Europe from day one. This was also in the textbooks of the day.

4) Poor investment has ALWAYS been the problem with this nation. That companies were underperforming and not being invested in has been known for ages. In the comedy series 'Yes Minister' the lead character is named after the real 1960's assest stripping business man Jim Hacker. He recognised the fact that companies were faliing and yet continuing to pay performance dividends (how familiar). The attempt to make Britain competitive was carried out by undermining the status of British workers in a 'free trade' economy and by killing off the trade unions in the process. Meanwhile Piggy heaven was introduced for the executive chain. Selling things off is how this nation has duped the world into believing that it was economically sound whilst the populus was hoodwinked with the feelgood factor of buying cheap goods. That and being buddies with the USA. Blair did what Harold Wilson declined to do and that was join the USA in war. The nation's credit rating was therefore given a profilactic innoculation against being declared bankrupt.

So don't laugh too loudly at the Greeks as Britain is but a footstep behind. The Greeks are about to undergo savage public spending cutbacks as we are also - just wait until the election is over.

5) There has not been any spelling or grammar merely the eroneous classification that was offered.

Please accept my goodwill in all of this

H.
My dear fellow. We are not going to agree. I think you're wrong. That's all. And I do know that the Ottomans, like any other conquering people, bent on Empire building, or world domination, would take back to their homeland, the people of many different, conquered races, creeds and colours. Sheesh!

A United States of Europe, there will never be and if that terrible day, ever does come about, it won't last. It will fall and it won't be brought about by men/women, hiding inside a horse. It will be too in ones face for that.

[darkeyes]

*laughs*.. I'm sorry Canticle.. please dont take this the wrong way, but so much of what your write could so easily come from Tory Party Central Office or the editorial or letters column of the Torygraph or Sunday Slimes... if you believe it fine.. but on this I think we are just so diametrically opposed...I think we just see the world much too differently to even come close to agreeing..

Vote for your lil Tory later 2 day if ya have to... and leave me to anguish at my dearth of remotely decent candidates.. principle and passion dont haff get in the way of things at times.. so its eff off for me I think... or mayb a bollox.. or even an arse'ole... mayb all 3..:(

[Canticle]

*laughs*.. I'm sorry Canticle.. please dont take this the wrong way, but so much of what your write could so easily come from Tory Party Central Office or the editorial or letters column of the Torygraph or Sunday Slimes... if you believe it fine.. but on this I think we are just so diametrically opposed...I think we just see the world much too differently to even come close to agreeing..

Vote for your lil Tory later 2 day if ya have to... and leave me to anguish at my dearth of remotely decent candidates.. principle and passion dont haff get in the way of things at times.. so its eff off for me I think... or mayb a bollox.. or even an arse'ole... mayb all 3..:(


My dear Fran, just because a person may represent a more right wing, political party, it does not make that person, any less decent, or trustworthy than a left wing politician. I feel that more often, than not, there is little difference, between them. If there was a real Labour party, I'd vote for it. There isn't. It was hijacked by the middle class and used as a vehicle for personal gain, not what is best for the country. New Labour is probably more right wing, than the current Conservative hierarchy. And damned evil to boot.

And your expletives.......I've already said those.....many times......during Cricket matches. Tame....very tame, Fran!

[Hephaestion]

Well we appear to agree on something and that is that New Labour is not so different from the their traditional 'opposites'.

At one time I wondered whether it was a strategy. Every time Labour got in, their credit rating was strangled and so were frustrated in their function. This current New Labour simply continued what the Tory party previous had set in motion. The result? No one could accuse them of the 'old practices'. What does an opposition party do when their traditional opposition is doing very much what they would have been doing? They now claim to be caring and left wing it seems. So naff all difference between them is correct and they seem to be headed twards traditional Liberal territory except for voting reform. The Liberals can only differentiate themselves by attempting to lure people away from the 'two party' system.

At one time the Democrats in the USA were the right wing party and the Republicans the left. Maybe this is how they swapped?

Regards

H.

[darkeyes]

My dear Fran, just because a person may represent a more right wing, political party, it does not make that person, any less decent, or trustworthy than a left wing politician. I feel that more often, than not, there is little difference, between them. If there was a real Labour party, I'd vote for it. There isn't. It was hijacked by the middle class and used as a vehicle for personal gain, not what is best for the country. New Labour is probably more right wing, than the current Conservative hierarchy. And damned evil to boot.

And your expletives.......I've already said those.....many times......during Cricket matches. Tame....very tame, Fran!

Precisely Canticle.... an is equally likely 2 b a corrupt sleezeball.. but in modern political terms... wer is the left wing politician? They look bloody thin on ground 2 me... an thats the point... all those nice parties an all degrees a the same.. otha than the the greens an 1 or 2 smaller fringe left wing parties wot we r faced wiv is 640 odd a the same... but ya r rong.. the current Tory hierarchy is not more left wing than than New Labour.. it IS howeva jus a diff shade a the same thing.. but 1ce on power, espesh if wiv a majority.. we will c that it is not much diff from the historical Toryism that has run this country ova so much a the last century or so..

..an tame the xpletives may b.. but each serves its purpose eva so well..

[darkeyes]

Gud thing bout livin up 'ere ya hav a diff dimension from u lot down ther.. we hav the Nats.. in staff room jus few mins 'go topic a the day? Vote Nat an gtf outa the UK.. no effin Tories then... bit short sighted an bit anti English can tellya that.. we hav sevral English membas a staff.. 1 a whom cums from same parta world as me mum..Salford.. 'e is votin Nat.. talk bout bein confused.. but 'is logic is that 'e wud ratha put up wiv the odd bitta enti english than put up wiv Tories runnin 'is life.. very laudible but stupid..

Ther is summat odious bout the sleekit way sum peeps up 'ere dress up ther nationalism as summat it reelly isn.. its not bout takin bak control of our own affairs from London.. we already hav on domestic issues.. its bout anti English sentiment wich me finds quite odious.. the lil snidey comments.. the hypocrites say 1 thing wen ther is no English staff bout an change it 2 sound less odious wen ther r... deputy head copped sharp end a me tongue not haff hour 'go for jus that ver thing.. not 2 sure Fran has dun 'er promotion prospects 2 much gud ther... gimme the kids ne time... least ya hav chance wiv them a stoppin the rot an ther anti englishness wer it exists is outa ignorance an immaturity.. grown ups shud kno betta

.. no they not all like that... most r not.. but 'mong the nats.. all 2 many r.. an since bout 40% an more a the staff 'ere r Nats.. me reckons bout a third a them fit the bill.. an a few a supporters a otha parties an all.. considrin the nats policy wise r closer 2 me own beliefs (otha than the the independence bit) than ne a the otha 3 big parties, ther is jus summat reelly untrustworthy an sleezy bout the who shebang.. gimme a gud "honest" Tory ne day... know wer me stands wiv those getts!

[darkeyes]

...jus a lil add on 2 me last post... the Scottish National Party say they r a socialist party.. k thats fine far as it goes.. but jus askya this... wotya get wenya put "socialist" afta the word "national"..

..now am not accusin the Nats a bein wot u think me is.. but is summat 2 ponder.. an nationalism...an socialism r simply contradiction in terms wich can nev b comfortably reconciled...

[Canticle]

...jus a lil add on 2 me last post... the Scottish National Party say they r a socialist party.. k thats fine far as it goes.. but jus askya this... wotya get wenya put "socialist" afta the word "national"..

..now am not accusin the Nats a bein wot u think me is.. but is summat 2 ponder.. an nationalism...an socialism r simply contradiction in terms wich can nev b comfortably reconciled...


''There comes a time, when patriotism, is not enough''.......Edith Cavell

[darkeyes]

''There comes a time, when patriotism, is not enough''.......Edith Cavell

Patriotism is the refuge of scoundrels

Dr Samuel Johnson

[darkeyes]

... deputy head copped sharp end a me tongue not haff hour 'go for jus that ver thing.. not 2 sure Fran has dun 'er promotion prospects 2 much gud ther...

..same dep head sauntered inta me classroom afta end a day.. wos expectin big set 2.. didn quite work out that way.. but did get a "friendly" lil warnin that if me ev spoke 2 'im "that way gain" then me cud look 2 me laurels... but did ask 'im 2 repeat it in front a me union rep.... needless 2 say that's gonna happen innit?;) Had word wiv me union rep ne way...:)

[Canticle]

Patriotism is the refuge of scoundrels

Dr Samuel Johnson

Aaaarrrrgggghhhhh!!!!................Exactly...... .Cavell was there to save life and tend to the wounded. I've always thought, that what she was trying to say, is that saving the lives of those being persecuted and hunted, is the most important thing. Yes, she was shot by the Germans, in WWI and was made into a heroine of the Empire, a true martyr, at the time, but I like to think, that what she was really wanting to do, was preserve young lives, as well as trying to serve her country, in whatever way possible.

I could tell you a tale about Dr Johnson......another ''local lad.''

[Canticle]

Precisely Canticle.... an is equally likely 2 b a corrupt sleezeball.. but in modern political terms... wer is the left wing politician? They look bloody thin on ground 2 me... an thats the point... all those nice parties an all degrees a the same.. otha than the the greens an 1 or 2 smaller fringe left wing parties wot we r faced wiv is 640 odd a the same... but ya r rong.. the current Tory hierarchy is not more left wing than than New Labour.. it IS howeva jus a diff shade a the same thing.. but 1ce on power, espesh if wiv a majority.. we will c that it is not much diff from the historical Toryism that has run this country ova so much a the last century or so..

..an tame the xpletives may b.. but each serves its purpose eva so well..

''but ya r rong.. the current Tory hierarchy is not more left wing than than New Labour.. it IS howeva jus a diff shade a the same thing.. ''

Nope anna ganna agree.......

''but 1ce on power, espesh if wiv a majority.. we will c that it is not much diff from the historical Toryism that has run this country ova so much a the last century or so..''

We'll see, won't we. I can remember that ''safe again,'' feeling, that we all had in 1997. It didn't last. With the death of Diana, Princess of Wales, we saw, maybe for the first time (maybe not), the very good actor, that was also known as Tony Blair.

I hate it, when people across the pond, call him Bush's poodle. The heck he was. He was hell bent on war, just like the long haired Blair, when at Uni, was already hell bent on being Prime Minister.....and didn't give a damn, which party it was with.

I don't like Blair.......Canya tell!

Where is Tony Benn when you need him!!

I have decided...for the very first time in my life....NOT to vote in today's General Election. I went to sleep, with every intention of getting up, going out and on my way home, voting. I awoke...a little late and decided....''I can't be arsed!''

Tomorrow, I shall feel guilty and punish myself for awhile......maybe I won't have a cream cake, with my coffee....but I won't regret it.....even if the spirits of the long dead suffragettes (sp is not right)....glare at me through the ether. :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: ''She what.....''

And unlike other non voters, I'll not complain.......cos nothing seems to change my situation.....only I can do that.

My election result predictions.....

Labour remain in government, but with a vey small, overall majority.

The pendulum takes a mighty swing, but the new Conservative government, has a small majority.

Or...may the Cosmos forbid...there is a hung parliament. Actually, that could be very interesting and quite exciting......so long as neither of the two major parties, form an alliance with the Liberal Democrats.

I have another...wicked idea....but, No, I know it would never come about.....and it's just me toying with ideas in my mind. LOL....the Conservatives and New Labour, joining forces, to stop there being a Liberal Democrat Government.....Cleggy, Compo et al! I did say it was just wild thinking.

[darkeyes]

Well I voted.. it was the hardest thing to do.. why so hard putting a cross on a little bit of paper? Because you try not putting a cross against the party you believed in, worked for and loved for most of your adult life.. and a good few years before.. and its so much harder when there is no one else who comes close to the things you believe in.. so I simply put no thank you against each name with tears pricking at my eyes. I waited for Kate as she voted and we then walked out to make our way home.

It was fine.. she cuddled me better cos she knew I hated it, and was upset... then the first person I walked into was an old friend and ally from my previous constituency who was there on behalf of the Labour party. He greeted me as he always greeted me.. as a long lost chum and threw his arms around me.. that was that.. the floodgates opened and I just could not help myself... Fran's heart broke and she felt like the traitor she knew she was not.. it was not Fran who betrayed socialism, but the party she once loved.. I had not seen him for over two years but he knew why I was blubbing like a child... and his words of comfort only made things worse.. I just kept hugging him and repeatedly apologising.. anything else was incoherent babble.... in the end I just had to get away from there as quickly as I could...

I know..it was daft...and stupid.. and emotional dross.. but it marked properly and finally the end of my long love affair with the Labour party... and like all failed love affairs.. it ended in floods of tears..

[darkeyes]

.. and so it comes to pass.. a hung parliament.. I know that most of u outside of the UK dont care.. but thats ok.. confusion reigns.. Tories win England by a mile.. Labour Scotland and Wales by a mile although the Tories did make some headway in Wales.. Northern Ireland is a special case but they too will play their part in how and who forms a government.. is Clegg going to prop up the Tories when they are going to give him nothing? He seems to have boxed himself in so I think so..

Scotlands Nationalist government and Wales Labour are steeling themselves for the inevitable assault on their ability to run their countries should the Tories form a government. But no more so than if Labour and the Libs form a coalition heavily weighted from countries which have their own parliaments... polarisation and a further deepening of the rift between England and the other two parts of mainland Britain..

The one good thing which happened is that the BNP made absolutely no progress whatever..

O what joy.. :( Thank God its the weekend and I can let my hair down and some fun and forget it all for a while....

[Canticle]

.. and so it comes to pass.. a hung parliament.. I know that most of u outside of the UK dont care.. but thats ok.. confusion reigns.. Tories win England by a mile.. Labour Scotland and Wales by a mile although the Tories did make some headway in Wales.. Northern Ireland is a special case but they too will play their part in how and who forms a government.. is Clegg going to prop up the Tories when they are going to give him nothing? He seems to have boxed himself in so I think so..

Scotlands Nationalist government and Wales Labour are steeling themselves for the inevitable assault on their ability to run their countries should the Tories form a government. But no more so than if Labour and the Libs form a coalition heavily weighted from countries which have their own parliaments... polarisation and a further deepening of the rift between England and the other two parts of mainland Britain..

The one good thing which happened is that the BNP made absolutely no progress whatever..

O what joy.. :( Thank God its the weekend and I can let my hair down and some fun and forget it all for a while....

.........and within 12 - 18 months there will be another general election called.......

Whoever makes a deal with Clegg, be it Compo or Foggy, or if the present Prime Minister decides to take a chance and rule with a minority government (hmmmmm.......thinks that would see an election called.....much sooner than within the next 12 months.....the last thing Gordon Brown wants...is to go out of office, losing a vote of no confidence, in the House of Commons).....this will not be a satisfactory solution.

Gee...I love Politics....it's exciting, frustrating, annoying, corrupt and whatever else one can think of.......but watching the BBC coverage last night, on my computer, sitting in bed and drinking coffee...was most interesting. Gee...and to think.....I wanted to be the first woman prime minister......LOL......well. I was 14!!!

[tenni]

Well, Brits...good luck to ya.

We have had a "minority" government since 2006 and that includes two elections. Canadians will not give a majority to any party right now or in the foreseeable future. Our present government led by Harper has been acting like a majority government, ignoring normal parliamentary procedures and standards in part due to the Opposition parties being disorganized. The Cons are on the boarderline of being in contempt of Parliament due to failure to turn over documents to Parliament. A world wide Parliamentary precedent setting ruling came down from the Speaker just the other week. It stated that a government may not refuse to obey a motion of Parliament to turn over documents to Parliament. This may only happen when the Opposition outnumbers the government minority. It is really critical that all parties resolve this dispute or we will be in constitutional questionable waters within a week. The "right" united two parties into one and the more "left" are two or three parties or four depending how you look at them. One is separatists and so I'm not sure where to put them...lol In a civilized and normal minority Parliament, a lot of good can be done. Unfortunately, we have a minority PM who thinks that he is king and he is getting away with nonsense. He shames us internationally.. Enough about us.

Won't it be hard for your Conservatives to form a coalition with a more left party like the Liberals(or whatever they are called)? It would seem more logical for the Labour party to unite as a coalition with the Liberals but from what I glean from some it seems that maybe the Labour party is no longer "left"? (of course all of our parties are left from the US perspective since we have universal health care...lol :) I believe that we got our universal health care during a minority government and our flag. Go figure. Big positive things can happen in a "hung" parliament..as you call it.

[Canticle]

Any co-alition will not last. There will be another general election, within 12 to 18 months. When that time comes, if the party in the co-alition, with the most seats, has managed to prove itself, in whatever manner, to the electorate, then more seats may be won, a true majority achieved and there be no longer any need, to seek the alliance, of any other party.

Of course....things could always swing in the opposite direction and the third and more major opposition party, could win any election that is called.

At least from dissolution of Parliament, to election day, it is less than a month and doesn't drag on for months, with party members ending up absolutely hyper and hysterical.....as can happen in some lands. :cool:

Gordon Brown could decide to soldier on with a minority government. If that ends up in a vote of no confidence in the House of Commons.......once again......you have an election on the cards.:cool:

[darkeyes]

You're right Tenni..a left of centre (arguably left of centre anyway) coalition makes more sense.. they received well over 50% of the vote even if that isnt reflected in seats won.. in fact left of centre parties taken as a whole won around 60% of the vote... but such is life in Brit Politics.. if the Liberals get their wish and we have a more representative electoral system such as PR or STV or whatever then brit politics will always be governing coalitions, just as they are on the continent.. even a mix of a PR list system and 1st past the post which we have in Scotland for the Scottish parliament would almost certainly result in that..

A Tory/Lib coalition is very difficult to see sustained and I dont expect a formal coalition as such but an arrangemnt where the libs will support the Tories in parliament in return for a few pet projects.. Cameron has set his face against PR and changing the present system, but has offered the Libs "a committee" to discuss the electoral system, but will accept no referendum on change .. and on other issues important to the libs Cameron has said forget it.. but he will listen to and think about a few other little matters.. bloody fools if they accept that..

O well.. will wait an c... am expectin another election in October anyway... whatever happens, Im not sure any pact or coalition will go much longer than that.

[tenni]

What kind of guy is Cameron?

Have there been any signs as to how he might act as a PM? As I wrote, our Conservative leader is quite the autocrat even as a minority PM. This is unusual as most minority governments require some compromise with the Opposition or at least one of the Opposition parties. I hope that Cameron doesn't show signs of being one of these neo cons like Canada has and the US had with George Bush 2. These neo Cons seem like such creeps and despots.

It would be interesting if Brown tries to stay as PM. From what you write, it won't last long.

[Canticle]

You're right Tenni..a left of centre (arguably left of centre anyway) coalition makes more sense.. they received well over 50% of the vote even if that isnt reflected in seats won.. in fact left of centre parties taken as a whole won around 60% of the vote... but such is life in Brit Politics.. if the Liberals get their wish and we have a more representative electoral system such as PR or STV or whatever then brit politics will always be governing coalitions, just as they are on the continent.. even a mix of a PR list system and 1st past the post which we have in Scotland for the Scottish parliament would almost certainly result in that..

A Tory/Lib coalition is very difficult to see sustained and I dont expect a formal coalition as such but an arrangemnt where the libs will support the Tories in parliament in return for a few pet projects.. Cameron has set his face against PR and changing the present system, but has offered the Libs "a committee" to discuss the electoral system, but will accept no referendum on change .. and on other issues important to the libs Cameron has said forget it.. but he will listen to and think about a few other little matters.. bloody fools if they accept that..

O well.. will wait an c... am expectin another election in October anyway... whatever happens, Im not sure any pact or coalition will go much longer than that.


Yeppish :bigrin:

[Canticle]

What kind of guy is Cameron?

Have there been any signs as to how he might act as a PM? As I wrote, our Conservative leader is quite the autocrat even as a minority PM. This is unusual as most minority governments require some compromise with the Opposition or at least one of the Opposition parties. I hope that Cameron doesn't show signs of being one of these neo cons like Canada has and the US had with George Bush 2. These neo Cons seem like such creeps and despots.

It would be interesting if Brown tries to stay as PM. From what you write, it won't last long.

The sad thing is this. Gordon Brown, a man who is thoroughly dcent, not flamboyant, really believing what he says (and I don't mean the spin), is going to now be remembered, as a failed leader and not the brilliant Chacellor, that he was. A shame.

Cameron, for a Conservative, I like (but then I liked Hague, because he was a Yorkshireman and from where my grandparents were from). I think Cameron is a decent man. He and his wife, certainly know what heartache is, having lost one of their children, not too long ago.....but he is a Conservative............and knowing what heartache is, does not run a country

Clegg.......is a Liberal Democrat......enough said.

Give me any one of the three, in place of Tony Blair. I believe that he was a thoroughly corrupt man....not just politician....man. Loathesome.

[darkeyes]

The sad thing is this. Gordon Brown, a man who is thoroughly dcent, not flamboyant, really believing what he says (and I don't mean the spin), is going to now be remembered, as a failed leader and not the brilliant Chacellor, that he was. A shame.

Cameron, for a Conservative, I like (but then I liked Hague, because he was a Yorkshireman and from where my grandparents were from). I think Cameron is a decent man. He and his wife, certainly know what heartache is, having lost one of their children, not too long ago.....but he is a Conservative............and knowing what heartache is, does not run a country

Clegg.......is a Liberal Democrat......enough said.

Give me any one of the three, in place of Tony Blair. I believe that he was a thoroughly corrupt man....not just politician....man. Loathesome.

He is a Tory Tenni..therefore anti me and everything I believe in.. pro nobs, pro big biz..pro the rich.. pro himself...thoroughly decent? Not from where I'm sitting... and we shall soon find that out in practice I am sure...

.. but about Blair? I agree without reservation Canticle.. he once stood on my foot at a Labour party conference and I never even got an aopolgy.. thats not why I dont like him.. his ruination of my party I am unable to forgive.. and his disgusting running of my country..

[tenni]

Well, there are conservatives and then there is the other disgusting bred of neo cons. Our former Progressive Conservatives had a big business bent to them but in comparison to the likes of Harper and Bush2, they were almost sweethearts. I guess that your Labour party in its former principles is close to our New Democratic party....pro labour union. I am split somewhere between a Liberal (tend to vote that way), NDP(labour) and Green. Was there no Green movement in Britain during this election? Both Labour & Green tend to be a bit idealistic which I like but I tend to vote Liberal as I see them having more of a chance of making government against the dreaded Cons...let alone these freak'n neo cons dressed as Conservatives....lol If Cameron is not a neo Con be happy.

[darkeyes]

Well, there are conservatives and then there is the other disgusting bred of neo cons. Our former Progressive Conservatives had a big business bent to them but in comparison to the likes of Harper and Bush2, they were almost sweethearts. I guess that your Labour party in its former principles is close to our New Democratic party....pro labour union. I am split somewhere between a Liberal (tend to vote that way), NDP(labour) and Green. Was there no Green movement in Britain during this election? Both Labour & Green tend to be a bit idealistic which I like but I tend to vote Liberal as I see them having more of a chance of making government against the dreaded Cons...let alone these freak'n neo cons dressed as Conservatives....lol If Cameron is not a neo Con be happy.

Yes Tenni, we have a Green Movement..they just had their very first MP elected in Brighton.. better them than a bloody Tory.. there have been Greens in the Scottish Parliament for some years.. and quite a few councillors up and down the country..but in UK National elections 1st past the post makes it incredibly difficult for groups like the Greens.. if an when the election system changes it will be easier for the,,unforunately there is also a dark cloud on the horizon on that score...it will then become much easier for fascists to get elected.. nothing's ever straight forward or simple is it?

..and it doesnt matter to me what kind of Tory Cameron is..he is my enemy politically.. and I fear for his reign as PM.. I only just remember Major as I was becoming active and although I do remember Thatcher as PM, I was only a kid but remember her mainly as a swear word in our household. As I grew and learned I found out just why Tories and Toryism is such a profanity in my family...