Mice, serotonin and altering sexuality

[NotLostJustWandering]

The difference between our views though is that I have science and research on my side, you have fluffy feel goodery language and an entrenched opinion which would never deviate because you have a point to prove.

Your claim to have "science on your side" relies on a highly selective reading of the article you quoted. Yes, you did note the researchers noted that "At this time therefore any potential links between serotonin and human sexual preferences must be considered somewhat tenuous" but you conveniently failed to quote the three paragraphs that came before.


Sexual behaviour in mice is thought to be driven by their sense of smell.

Professor Keith Kendrick, a neuroscientist at the Babraham Institute in Cambridge, said: "In terms of having potential relevance to understanding human sexual preference/orientation, we are of course far less influenced by odour cues in this context than mice are.

"There is some very limited evidence for altered responses to selective serotonin uptake inhibitors (SSRIs) in the brains of homosexuals, but we have been using psychoactive drugs which either increase or decrease serotonin function for quite some time now, and while effects on sexual arousal, impulsivity and aggression have often been reported, no effects on sexual preference/orientation have.

[slipnslide]

Your claim to have "science on your side" relies on a highly selective reading of the article you quoted. Yes, you did note the researchers noted that "At this time therefore any potential links between serotonin and human sexual preferences must be considered somewhat tenuous" but you conveniently failed to quote the three paragraphs that came before.

I say to give the research more time because of all the anecdotal comments from people who note a link between their diminished mood and same sex attraction. What do you care though if you think being bi is so wonderful? I'm the one who thinks it's embarrassing and wants a fix.

In just a few years we've gone from controlling sexuality in fruit flies to mice. This stuff is moving fast and if there's a market for it, the pharmaceutical companies will be all over it.

[mikey3000]

SS, if you want a fix, then maybe you should do some deep soul searching to discover why you wanted dick in the first place? To fix the problem you first have to understand it. Then maybe if you still wanna fix you can try. Good luck yo you.

[slipnslide]

SS, if you want a fix, then maybe you should do some deep soul searching to discover why you wanted dick in the first place? To fix the problem you first have to understand it. Then maybe if you still wanna fix you can try. Good luck yo you.

It's all mood based with me. If I'm down I'm bi, if I'm happy I'm hetero. I've already done the soul searching and figured this out - but I don't want to live on antidepressants.

[Long Duck Dong]

there is a link between mental illness and sexuality..... but thats more along the lines of depressive based mental illness and sexuality.. and a link between the way that somebody will act and react according to the way the mental illness affects them......

some depressive natured people can and do enter into sexual relationships with the same and opposite genders, and that is what people need to be careful of.... and yes medicines can alter the sexuality in that respect cos you are changing and shifting the way they cope and handle their mental illness issues.....

the confusion there is that its a manifestation of the need for support, stability, comfort and somebody to hang on to..... a bit like a middle life crisis issue in some people where they go and do some crazy, off the wall things, that they normally would not do......

that is where many people get confused..... as they tend to see people in a single way.... not a multiple way, and base their understanding of people around their own ability to cope and handle issues.....

you have person A that has recurring depression and shifts between sexualities and sexual attractions, that can be monitored and a constant pattern between the depressive spikes and drops...... and they can be treated with medicines that can change and alter sexual behievour.....

then you have person B that has recurring depression and shifts between sexualities and sexual attractions, that is not matched by changes in emotional and mental shifts in the depressive spectrum.... they are the people that will not show a change in sexuality when their depressive state is treated with medicines......

the trouble with trying to replicate that in controlled conditions, is that you take a person out of their natural environment and in doing so, you actually * tamper * with the possible findings.....

observe people for 10 years in their natural surroundings and you will see a different aspect to the same people if you put them in a controlled environment......

so yes there is a connection between sexuality and mental illness, but its subjective to the person, not the mental illness or a sexuality.....

in simple terms, think of it as a drunken person and a same sex fling, that they would never do when sober..... and true to form.. not every body does it..... so in a controlled study group, you can prove or disprove that ..... but in a social setting, you will see it happen..... and that is why it is so dangerous to use study findings, as they depend on the people they study....
and you can find studies that will prove a link between mental illness and sexuality... when another study will find no link..... its all in the people they study......

[NotLostJustWandering]

I say to give the research more time because of all the anecdotal comments from people who note a link between their diminished mood and same sex attraction. What do you care though if you think being bi is so wonderful?

Because while I see nothing inherently unhealthy about bisexuality, I find our position in society really sucks, and I am out to change that as best I can. Your attempt to portray bisexuality as an illness is counter to my struggle, your hopes for a pharmaceutical cure for your unhappiness are ill-placed, and your situation is really sad.


I'm the one who thinks it's embarrassing and wants a fix.

In just a few years we've gone from controlling sexuality in fruit flies to mice. This stuff is moving fast and if there's a market for it, the pharmaceutical companies will be all over it.

Speculating about the future while ignoring what the scientists who did this research actually say about it is a far cry from having science on your side, as you claim.

Throughout this discussion you have prided yourself on being a great independent thinker and accusing anyone who disagrees with you as having minds hobbled by politics. And yet your own reasoning has been quite poor and shows the mark of a mind hiding from truth about itself.

You have posited that homosexual behavior does not advance the continuation of the species as self-evidence that homosexuality should be regarded as an aberration, an abnormality. It has been pointed out to you that human life is about much more than reproduction, and that the species is in fact overpopulating the planet; you have failed to address those arguments.

You have warned that we should be careful not to confuse causality with correlation, and yet you present evidence of correlation of depression with homosexuality while failing to counter the argument that societal rejection of queer people is in itself sufficient cause for depression.

By your own admission you personally know very few queer people, and that few people outside of this site -- where you remain anonymous -- know of your bisexuality, yet you correlate your depression and your bisexuality as if being closeted and isolated could have nothing to do your personal misery.

I hope you take steps a bit more courageous than investing your hopes in stifling your homosexual side and waiting for a pill to make the closet more comfortable.

[Pasadenacpl2]

I do not agree with Atiq very often, but he nailed it.

Pasa

[slipnslide]

You're missing the fucking point! Gah!

1. Diminished mood, then
2. Same sex attraction.

Not the other way around, and when the mood improves same sex attraction is gone.

Well, that's it. I'm done with this site. You're all just looking for pats on the back from each so have at it.

Fuck you people make me hate bi people. You're the worst people. Just awful.

[NotLostJustWandering]

You're missing the fucking point! Gah!

1. Diminished mood, then
2. Same sex attraction.

Not the other way around, and when the mood improves same sex attraction is gone.

I don't doubt that you experience what you describe. But perhaps the mechanisms of your psychology are a bit more convoluted than you estimate? Just a thought....



Well, that's it. I'm done with this site. You're all just looking for pats on the back from each so have at it.

Fuck you people make me hate bi people. You're the worst people. Just awful.

You're right. No argument there. We are all terrible, wicked, evil people. You are much better off hanging out with good straight folks. It's been nice trying to corrupt you. Well, I must go sacrifice some babies to Satan before I go to bed. Ta.

[Pasadenacpl2]

If pats on the back is all we're after, then I was misinformed.

Pasa

[darkeyes]

You're missing the fucking point! Gah!

1. Diminished mood, then
2. Same sex attraction.

Not the other way around, and when the mood improves same sex attraction is gone.

Well, that's it. I'm done with this site. You're all just looking for pats on the back from each so have at it.

Fuck you people make me hate bi people. You're the worst people. Just awful.

I read this thread and the other barney 'bout your wanting to be medically "sorted". Its sad really, but not unusual. It happens to gays and lesbians too, especially if their world is the world of heterosexuality and that world sees them as straight and their ability to just be is frustrated. It ahppens to those of us who are open about our sexuality too. Disapproval and prejudie gets to us all in some way, and we all react to it in many diffferent ways. The day can come when things become so bad and we face so much prejudice and stress that we just can't take any more.

You have made a decision Slip babes. Its based on no evidence, but theories which the anti gay/bi brigade are so fond of ramming down our throats. It is as if you have bought into their propaganda. It isn't surprising that you have created a lot of anger and irritation. Katja's accusation in the other thread of betrayal has some foundation. You can betray your sexuality all you like for me... that doesn't make you my enemy, merely someone with whom I have a fundamental disagreement. My sexuality, which is not that of a bisexual, although it was once, I glory in. It is me and is as much of me as my ability to breathe fresh air and will be until that ability is taken from me by the inevitable.

Maybe I'm gay because of a gene, maybe not... no one knows for sure. It certainly wasn't environmental and it wasn't conditioning, unless you think my mum and dad shouldnt have told me, as I have so often said in one thread or other, that I can be who and what I want to be, not who the world wants me to be. Maybe it is a flawed gene, or something else. You know babes? I don't give a fuck. I dont care four cakes and a bun. I love being me and adore being a lesbian. I love what it does for me and what it gives me.. what and who it has given me.. the love it has brought me. I'm interested why I am as I am but don't batter myself around the head about it. And if they ever find out it can be "cured", then I will happily, without thinking, tell them politely "no thank you"... God help them if they make taking the cure compulsory.

But I doubt its a flaw and something which needs seeing to. I just think I am what I am because thats the way I'm made... that most of us who are not straight are that way cos we are made that way. Its not important personally to me whether or not that is the case, but it may be important to gays and bisexuals alike in the greater sheme of things. Why we are what we are may be a help or may be a hindrance. I know whether we are made that way or we choose that way enemies of the lgbt dont care.. we should just be sorted out and turned into criminals and perverts.

Whether it is a flaw, or a natural gene that is quite normal doesnt matter and it doesnt matter for this reason. How do we know for sure? Isn't it a matter of incredible subjectivity? If they are able to chemically alter a gene in us to make us straight, everyone bi or gay, whether that gene is an abnormality is a matter of subjectivity. On our side we will say it is quite normal, and the arseholes of this world will tell us it needs fixed. We tinker with such things at our peril and mankind's tinkering often has nasty side effects for which we have not bragined and we end up worse off. We potentially elimintae one or sevral varieties of this amazing species of ours. I can think of many more flaws in human kind, and more serious flaws than who we may want to fuck or spend our lives with.

The greatest betrayal is to yourself. Wishing to change yourself on the basis of.. well.. on the basis of ignorance.. you have bought into the anti gay/bi propaganda and have listened to centuries of prejudice. It also seem you are scared. Scared to face up to yourself and your reality. Running away from yourself is impossible.. you can deny it, but you cant change it. You want to be accepted by the straight world. Don't know about you but I am by and large. So is my partner and many of our friends... people who are open and honest about their sexuality. There are still arseholes who still are bigoted and would slaughter us either literally or metaphorically and there are millions of them. Yet there are millions more, straight people, not bisexual, gay or transgendered, who support our right to be. If that was not the case, there would have been no progress towards giving people like us the rights we have campaigned for and fought for over the last half century and more.

There is no evidence that we are a flaw, or that we suffer from some disease. The evidence such as it is tells us simply we are not heterosexuals. I would love there to be a truth serum which reaches down into our deepest subconcious and for it to be administered to every human being at ten yearly intervals from the age of 10. One question only to be asked...

What is your sexuality?

Now wouldn't that dig out some interesting facts about the world of the straight especially the anti lgbt straight. We would soon see just how many of them are really heterosexual.... my own view, which is merely conjecture, is that it would be a bloody sight fewer than there are non straight people now.

We have no such serum and I doubt we ever shall. We are who we are and what we are.... I am content with that. It is a sad travesty that you are not, but the greatest travesty is that you add ammunition to the arsenal of those who would destroy us. I doubt very much you will care too much about that in your self pity. Maybe as time passes you will change, and realise that what you are is in fact a rather lovely thing and regret wallowing in such uncalled for remorse and misery. I hope so.. but if you dont. Good luck to you and be happy. Everyone should be, even you.

There is between you and I only one difference babes as I see it.. I have embraced me with open arms and have refused to succumb and submit to what people may say about who and what I am.